suspension of disbelief, how crazy is too crazy

[lantzblades]

Suspension of disbelief, just how much couched crazy can you take before you give on something? This question occurred to me recent when poking around and finding that Nero somehow a Caster (seemingly only in a swimsuit though) I had to wonder when they hinted at this, it wasn't extra or extella, maybe it's just a lol fate go thing. But ultimately it got me to thinking about the suspension of disbelief and the logic of it. For my own works I've always tried to couch the craziness in solid bits of the lore but then I see other authors or the tm guys do more outlandish stuff and get no flak for their efforts, thus I'm left baffled, as someone who wants to participate in the community I'm legitimately confused as to how this whole mechanism works.

[Nobody]

King Arthur being a girl.

Not shitposting or trying to be funny.

[jennajayfeather]

I think the outlandish stuff is what makes TM fun tbh. I mean I can't say this for everything I watch, but somehow with stuff in TM I think it makes it easy to believe the impossible can become possible, so as long as I'm sold on that, I think I can take anything seriously.

Yes, even a crack-filled summer event in FGO.

[Omida]

Heracles' tenure at TM being the longest bout of madness in his life :V (I want my Assassin crossdressing cosplayer Heracles dammit)

Jokes aside,

Saberfaces when they have no business being (aka, literally on anyone not related by blood to Arturia). Part of the reason I like Altera is because her face doesn't belong to Arturia. Not too crazy, just really goddamn tiring.

[Hawkeye]

It's gonna sound kinda bad, but the times when a series takes me out of its premise and reminds me it's a series. Not like I have anything against them, but seeing like Emiya, Arc and Shiki show up in Grail Wars just reminds me that while the premise of an ancient hero battle royale is awesome, they occasionally throw their OCs into the mix and it takes me out of the moment a bit.

[lantzblades]

I agree about King Arthur but, to be fair, Nasu planned him to be a guy originally and Arturia stands as a proper representative of the myth far better than other interpretations in modern works.

TM is uniquely comic book like to me, it's about situational combat and coolness before logic, I completely agree Jenna

Yes Saberface is dumb (I think Nero is like that because of King Arthur being two dudes irl or something) especially Sakura saber, side note: I do not remember her doing that

Yes the constant non hero appearances via grail are derpy fanservice. Emiya in extra is literally the stupid logic leap I've seen, and exiling only him to non canon status is equally ridiculous.

[eddyak]

I don't have too much trouble imagining Nero as a Caster, honestly. I mean, the animations are ridiculous(ly AWESOME- That NP animation looks like it comes right out of the best episodes of Gundam and Gurren Lagann), but other than that, the idea of a Roman Emperor, basically the richest and most influential person on the planet at the time, not having access to a magus of some sort to teach her is less believable. Especially given how flakey TM's Nero is- I mean, she literally has a skill that lets her fake being good at something so well she's actually good at it, and from what I've seen of her, she's pretty whimsical as it is. I can see her learning magic off a court mage, then getting bored later and completely forgetting he exists.

Honestly, it's best not to take the Event Servants as anything serious- one of them is Saber who wields a water pistol in one hand and Excalibur in the other, one is future saber who came back to destroy all traces of saberface, a couple of them are Sword Art Online/Star Wars references (who don't actually look anything like Saber, weirdly enough), one looks like she started making a giant ghost Saitama cosplay, only to get bored of it halfway through...

What I find less believable is Shakespeare, Marie Antoinette, Cleopatra, Dante and the like, getting in as actual Servants who do fighty things.

[You]

Caster Nero is her using the stuff she learned from Simon magus coupled with her singing. More lore compliant in qualifying for the class than some other nonswimsuit casters.

[lantzblades]

Well Eddy I don't actually know about Fate GO, my devices can't play it and the CCG type random element is something I both love and can't stand in equal measure. I'm not objecting to her being Caster either (I'm the guy who has character alts like a Berserker Taiga on record remember) it's just the detail that brought up the topic of the thread. Like I said in the OP, I don't really understand what is and isn't acceptable for sheer crazy. Best I can figure it's a perspective issue because my work doesn't seem crazy, but then I have the puzzle completed, it seems like the rest of you guys are still arguing if the yellow pieces are a duck, someone on here said self reflection is important in writing so I'm just doing a lot of thinking I suppose but I like the community despite my reputation in it, I guess that's why I'm asking the op question.

[Sesto]

Nero as Caster is literally hinted at in Extella

[Lily Emilio]

Nero should've been Caster from the beginning in Extra while Tamamo should've been Assassin there imo.

[eddyak]

Well Eddy I don't actually know about Fate GO, my devices can't play it and the CCG type random element is something I both love and can't stand in equal measure. I'm not objecting to her being Caster either (I'm the guy who has character alts like a Berserker Taiga on record remember) it's just the detail that brought up the topic of the thread. Like I said in the OP, I don't really understand what is and isn't acceptable for sheer crazy. Best I can figure it's a perspective issue because my work doesn't seem crazy, but then I have the puzzle completed, it seems like the rest of you guys are still arguing if the yellow pieces are a duck, someone on here said self reflection is important in writing so I'm just doing a lot of thinking I suppose but I like the community despite my reputation in it, I guess that's why I'm asking the op question.

If we're talking about your writing, I think honestly the biggest problem isn't the level of crazy, or how escalated the work gets (there are characters in GO that are literal gods and goddesses) is that you don't hit the ground running, like some authors do (drop you into the middle of a war, introducing characters and factions as you go), you hit the ground in one of those supersonic drag racers, already having finished the qualifiers, prelims and part of the race, only to pull the parachute and slow down for a bite to eat and a pit stop.

Walking into one of your works felt like coming into one of those comic book plots that at the end gets so convoluted and tangled and multi-verse-y only the guy who works at the comic store and spends hours talking about the plot and why it ACKSHUALLY makes a lot of sense his actually knows what's going on, and how it all fits together. I can't speak for everyone else, but the bit I found most off-putting was that I couldn't actually get to know the PoV character. Guy looked like a supah overpowered dude with all the toys and gadgets and skills- which is fine in its own way, if you can get them and the world around them to be interesting enough, see One Punch Man for an example of OP but interesting- but I didn't feel as if there was anything that actually moved him. He was either someone who'd already finished his character development arc, or so arrogant/dead inside that nothing was ever gonna get through to him.

That, and the fact that whenever somebody went "we still don't have a clue what's going on", your answer was basically "yeah, stuff's happened, keep reading to find out what!". A certain level of ambiguity works, but if we've just come into a weird wonderland where everything is lights and noise, either we're on an acid trip and nothing needs to make sense, or we're gonna have to find some familiar ground to stand on while we look at all the pretty lights.

Part of the problem in writing "My Original Character- So-and-So's son/daughter/crazy uncle locked in the attic!" is that, yeah, they're related to them, but they have literally nothing to do with them otherwise. The story isn't about the characters we know, it's about somebody who we're assured is related to them, but the story can't be about the characters we know, so there's very little familiar ground there.

[lantzblades]

About the pit stop, well I can't say you're wrong. Satoshis world is one Shirou and the others established, it was presented like that as a sort of prologue to Satoshi's story. I just didn't say it outright because I thought it was obvious given FSN.

Time travel or world jumping stories are always complicated, unfortunately I can't escape that part of the genre. He's front loaded like that because he's supposed to fail, all the imitation and power in the world doesn't make up for legitimate skill.

The issues regarding communication are three fold, as I said elsewhere on site I had shit happen rl and didn't take the feedback here well, I've apologized for it, the other bit about it was me trying to keep the urge to read intact for people, spoilers can ruin stuff afterall (although at this point I realize there are only six things I actually have to keep to myself) lastly when I say keep reading sometimes it's because literally one chapter later a question will be answered.

[eddyak]

I think it comes down to, you need to have a protagonist who's either (a) likeable, (b) interesting, (c) compelling or (George R R Martin) enough of a train wreck that you just have to keep watching to see what happens.

That, or have the supporting cast be good enough that cutting out the MC wouldn't impact how good the story is.

[lantzblades]

I don't think I can judge that Eddy, first because both likable and interesting are a matter of personal taste and because I'm biased, I wrote the story, I like all the characters and find the details to be interesting. As for the supporting cast, it's more or less the TM casts.

If I were to describe Satoshi's personality (Sans the first Arc where he's dealing with deaths of family members) he's like Arc or Nero, bright and warm for the most part.