The Deen one is a good starting point, as long as it doesn't just turn you off from the concept entirely.
The Deen one is a good starting point, as long as it doesn't just turn you off from the concept entirely.
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With that line of thought, the Deen anime could be used as a filter. The people who wouldn't truly enjoy Fate (or only claim to enjoy it so that they can be part of a bandwagon) would be turned off while those that stuck with it (or even enjoyed it) may have context for future stories.Originally Posted by eddyak
EDIT: At least, it would weed out potential Zero-onlies.
I started with Deen/SN and even as the show bored me at times, the concepts (plus the whole battle royale with legendary figures) it introduced intrigued me enough to read up more on Fate and get into the franchise. The music holds up though the animation was sub-par.
I noped on Deen five minutes into episode one but stuck it out through War and Peace ft. Magic and Fucking, and also Shiki's Watercolor Adventures so p bad filter imo
Yeah it worked that way for me. I thought it was pretty cool, and that there were a lot of secrets unanswered. It really paid off.
I watched the Deenime after reading what was out of the manga and reading the Zero LNs and was really ticked off that Shirou went from a decently competent cool guy to a fucking moron, but I pulled through it in the end. I also watched DeenBW before reading the VN, and it was pretty decent spectacle (especially the god-tier German dub).
I watched the Deen anime in 2006, and did like a few parts like the Herc vs Archer and the Gilgamesh vs Saber fight, Kirei getting stabbed was fun too, the music was good, but I forgot about it after some time, I only remembered about it when I found about the Visual Novel a few years later. So I searched for a LP to read all the routes.
It was the same thing with Tsukihime, I watched the anime first before the VN, and it took some time for me to learn that the 2 VN where from the same company.
This anime is the reason why I can't stand people lauding Zero as good. Apart from the animation upgrade this anime, warts and all, tells a better story. It's also the reason I hate LE, Saber leaving, sad as it was is the only genuinely romantic point in fsn. I think that the voice cast was better here than in ubw (ufo version) and frankly this adaptation actually explains characters and has them do shit.
It can't even tell properly the story for the main route and tries to add elements from the other 2 that are left like nothing afterwards
You mean better romance? Yes. Better version? Haha I'll never said so even if rotten tomatoes start watching anime and approve it as classic masterpiece
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I didn't say better version but considering that it's the only adaptation of the fate route in animation it wins that by default.
Seriously though, deens fate has a beginning, middle and ending. All the characters do things and are somewhat important and everything set up pays off. Legitimately this makes it a better story. In zero three hours gets spent setting up stuff that because there's no ufo adaptation of the fate route leads to nothing. The characters due to prequelitis all become gibbering morons or skull fuckingly incompetent to the point where they die in the stupidest of ways. Or in Iskandar's case reveal his RN only to job to Gilgamesh by sword spam. In UBW the four major problems are the attempted protagonist shift on to Rin, the cardboard nature of Caster, the aforementioned sword spam that makes Gilgamesh look utterly stupid as a result and the extra scene trying to make Waver important.
And now I understand why you have trouble writing.
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Seriously Arashi. Do you care? Or did you just come here to throw shade years after I've put anything on site? You might hate me or my writing but that doesn't make my criticism less legitimate.
I'm throwing shade on your observations, which flow into your inability to see things, which flows into your problems with narrative. We'll just take them one by one, mmkay?
Rider is just there, Sakura is just a prop for Rin's development, Herk is just there, we get far less insight into why Kuzuki and Medea do what they do, and without the internal monologues Shirou looks like a dipshit that doesn't change at all.All the characters do things and are somewhat important and everything set up pays off.
No, things are set up because that's what the novel did. They didn't actually know that they'd be adapting specific material later on. They did it to adapt the novel. Sure, you can complain that then there are issues with the source material then, or that the adaptation could have done more to rectify any problems with its source material, but arguing "because there's no adaptation of Fate" is putting the carriage before the horse.In zero three hours gets spent setting up stuff that because there's no ufo adaptation of the fate route leads to nothing.
Besides like maybe Hundred Faces, there's no particular character that acts deliberately incompetent. Or at least, doesn't act in a way that is completely believable for the kind of character they are.The characters due to prequelitis all become gibbering morons or skull fuckingly incompetent to the point where they die in the stupidest of ways.
Really, this being a major insight into how you have systemic problems with narrative. If all you see is "Iskandar's power only jobs to Gil" as the reason why his ability is shown, then you're missing pretty much the entire point of the three kings' narrative + Waver's story. It's there to demonstrate their differences. It's there to contrast Gil's "I only have one companion" and Saber's "I stood alone." It's there to act as a catalyst for Saber's own doubt over the issues she's struggling with in regards to the outcome of her life. It's there to bring up the idea of dreams and reality, which are a major theme throughout Fate. It's there to emphasize that part of Waver's story is to go from egocentric and above it all to inclusive and wanting to be a part of something greater. Take your pick. It's not just there to be "look at power, now look at Gil's bigger power" even if it might serve that minor function.Or in Iskandar's case reveal his RN only to job to Gilgamesh by sword spam.
There's no attempted protagonist shift on to Rin. Again, this is an adaptation. It literally did what the original did. In fact, she has the exact same beats of protagonistism as she did in the DEEN anime, even minus the part with her sister. So she's even less of a protagonist than in DEEN! How terrible!In UBW the four major problems are the attempted protagonist shift on to Rin, the cardboard nature of Caster, the aforementioned sword spam that makes Gilgamesh look utterly stupid as a result and the extra scene trying to make Waver important.
The "cardboard nature of Caster" is funny considering Caster is more thrown in and has less actual development in the DEEN anime.
And Waver is, you know, important? He's even the hero of his own series of novels! But seriously he's at the school and, as Nasu and Uro have said, easily mistakable for the protagonist of Zero, so it's nice to show people that are anime only that he didn't actually drop off the face of the earth.
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well your critism is not less legitimate, but IT IS not legitimate
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Basically everything you've said is wrong. Starting from the top.
Rider is a minor antagonist, she is opposition to Shirou and Saber, this is a might sight better then UBW, while ufo did not deviate from the source material in that regard it's still wrong because of the cinematic story telling they've done in their adaptation of Zero and UBW. It leaves the impression that Rider is useless or weak. Hercules is more or less a wall regardless of which route, it can't be helped with Berserkers.
It doesn't matter what the novel did, setting up Saber's agony and Shirou's goal for neither to pay off in the visual story telling shift is still a waste of time UBW (right to the source) pays off nothing.
I didn't say deliberately stupid, they act pants on head retarded despite being characterized as intelligent prior in Zero, in fsn proper they never described the characters as experts or geniuses seriously.
I'm referring to cinematic story telling with regards to Iskandar, again ufo connects zero and UBW and thus makes Gilgamesh looks worse because of Zero when he loses to Shirou, not so in deen's adaptation.
In connecting zero and UBW the way they did there is a focus shift, Rin being that focus. I'm not saying it's a bad thing in and of itself but I find it to be a mistake.
Caster isn't well done either way but between the adaptions she's far clearer in Deen's
Funny that you said Arashi is wrong, meanwhile you are the wrong one. Deen route and UBW route are simply different route. You're saying that it makes Gilgamesh looks bad in ubw but better in Deen? Ufotable simply adapt the novel from ubw novel where shirou 1 vs 1 against Gil. In fate route (loose deen adaptation) Gil figt against saber in one on one, meanwhile Shirou take Kirei one on one. Everything you said can be traced back to the source material and you're saying the source material is the problem, Ufo simply adapt with some changes (the changes is not as gigantic as Deen).
They don't show Rider's power because they will adapt Heaven's Feel where Rider shine, also make Rider as bigger antagonist in ubw simply hurt the story
Here you are, simply ignoring spandex Sakura and the meaningless Sakura arc replacing Saber explanation about her in time loop
Last edited by Wandering Swordwoman; September 17th, 2017 at 02:20 AM.
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Why this double post happen sometime
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Wrong KoU I'm not saying any such thing about the source material. I'm talking about the cinematic adaptions of the source material and how, as it stands, ufo have created, in regards to story, a lesser product. On many level Ufo is better but as a STORY Deen's is better. It's a complete thing you can watch without needing anything else.
Didn't DEEN's adaptation botch Medea's character with the whole thing about sacrificing humans to make Sakura Grail available when as a whole she tries to get what she wants without killing innocent people unnecessarily?
No Hakuno, Medea is letting them live in the seen adaption which Kuzuki says is less efficient.
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