Badass Versus Thread

[Mcjon01]

Not quite sure what you think Ado could do against Accelerator, since Accelerator's basic mode of attack can be summed up by "Touch enemy -> Enemy turns inside out", or "Enemy hits Accelerator -> Own weapon comes back and hits them in the face".

Well, if Accelerator was giant I bet Ado would just overpower his whole vector control thing with raw "fuck you". It's too bad that Accelerator isn't giant.

[food]

Coincidentally Accel can't do much either in combat. Maybe if he would pull out his relativistic concrete wall feat but that requires some prep.
Also it's rather questionable whether Accel can negate a mystical attack that can rend timespace appart in its vicinity. You know Slash Emperor does tear apart the Blood Sky every time its activated.
Also I'm still not buying the part of Slash Emperor only growing as big as the terget. Even if that's the case, Edem can just target the country or continent his target is standing on. Sure, why not?

You have to buy the part of Slash Emperor only growing as big as the target. It is printed in text in Character Material. Also, the English translation is on Fuyuki, if you want arai's translation.

But I do buy the "chop up the planet bit". It works theoretically, but in a "fantasy football" way.

[Optimus]

Won't Archer just block the crap out of whatever Herakles can dish out with Rho Aias and just kill Herakles with whatever-Archer-used-in-Fate-to-kill-Berserker?

Eh, I don't think it's that easy. Archer!Herakles means he will primarily, not that he cannot or won't use a sword to fight Archer in case of need. Rho Aias would only work once, and remember that its prana cost is not zero, lol.

[food]

Also, location is important.

Herakles would get more Noble Phantasms if he is fighting in Greece, lol. Like how Lancer is supposed to be super over-powered in Ireland.

[eddyak]

Eh, I don't think it's that easy. Archer!Herakles means he will primarily, not that he cannot or won't use a sword to fight Archer in case of need. Rho Aias would only work once, and remember that its prana cost is not zero, lol.

Rho Aius would work as many times as Archer wants it to work. The entire point of him being able to project weapons is that he can use them as disposables, remember?

Besides, I don't think Rho Aius is the only defence Archer has, it's just the most powerful.

[Optimus]

They are in Fuyuki.

EDIT: Problem is, Herakles is not dumb. After the 3rd time his ranged attacks get blocked, he's going to take his sword and fight him. And keep in mind he's supposed to be a clever guy, so I doubt Archer will have it easy to take lives from him like when he was mad...

[food]

Here's the scary thing though.

Just "kill" Herakles is not enough. He won't die if killed. Herakle's Battle Continuation is even more hardcore than Lancer (Lancer's is already hardcore enough).

You pretty much have to blow him up real good, like unrecognizable. Otherwise he will fight you forever (Lancer lasted half a day on Battle Continuation vs. Gilgamesh).

[Optimus]

Wasn't that thanks to Protection from Arrows too?

[food]

I bet Protection from Arrows played a role too, but the "lasting half a day fighting Gilgamesh" feat was attributed to Battle Continuation in CM3.

[Optimus]

I imagine a Lancer skewered by many weapons and still wielding his lance like nothing happened. And Herakles' Battle Continuation is even more hardcore.

Archer's going to be in trouble aganist that.

[TypeWannabe]

Didn't they both have the same rank of BC?

[Tangerang]

Didn't Berserker once pull some Jack Rakan shit and keep his body in existence even though he was already dead and the world was trying to erase his body in UBW? Through like sheer willpower?

[Optimus]

True.

EDIT: That was because, uh, he's friggin Herakles?

[eddyak]

Yeah, but that was after he was dead. He turned into actual ashes instead of sparkly sprinkes of magic.

He did get back up after taking the equivalent of about 20 deaths, though.

[food]

Didn't they both have the same rank of BC?

They do, but Berserker's is "better".

Battle continuation in general is the ability to continue fighting while near-death.

Lancer's version is sort of like "keep going while obviously dead".

Hercules' version is "ability to survive the wound" altogether.

Slight difference, but Hercules' is kind of better.

EDIT:

Let's use a hypothetical example.

Let's say both Lancer and Hercules had half of their heads blown clean off.

Lancer can fight for a while, then die.

Hercules can fight, and then actually have a chance of not dying from having half of his head blown off.

[giorno]

What are you talking about? Johan Pen Index was capable of easily destroying Styil in their fight and the only reason Styil survived is that he fought smart and Johan Pen Index couldn't think well in that form. I also wouldn't call Dragon Breath underrated. It is one of the few spells that could surpass Touma's IB and and is also one the fastest and longest techniques in the series. May I remind you that the only people that had techniques that surpass IB are the really hax people AKA Fiamma of the Right and Black Wing Accelerator. So yeah... I think if anything Index is underrated.

johan pen Index is overrated. You pretty much even explained why in your post(it's a reactive-type defensive mechanism, meaning it doesn't think but simply reacts to an outside stimulus with the greatest power possible. In other words, it's pretty easy to outmaneuver)

The power of the grimoires is another story....

and about accelerator's building-bullet: it shouldn't have been possible at all. What should have happened instead is that the sheer energy would have instantly disintegrated the wall down to its sub-atomic/fundamental particles and causing an explosion powerful enough to turn the planet into a lifeless ball of lava...or something to that extent

and about archer!herakles vs archer, i'm probably going with archer here...

[eddyak]

Reposted from the "Terrible MSPaint" thread:

It has come to my attention that some people may be labouring under the delusion that Berserker and elephants would ever get into a fight. I believe this is my fault, and so have decided to correct that misunderstanding.



That is all.

[AstralSword]

johan penand about archer!herakles vs archer, i'm probably going with archer here...

This denies it, while showing off why Archer lost. Heh, he must have liked when this happened with him to allow his current self to experience it as well:

[Huntring]

johan pen Index is overrated. You pretty much even explained why in your post(it's a reactive-type defensive mechanism, meaning it doesn't think but simply reacts to an outside stimulus with the greatest power possible. In other words, it's pretty easy to outmaneuver)

The power of the grimoires is another story....

and about accelerator's building-bullet: it shouldn't have been possible at all. What should have happened instead is that the sheer energy would have instantly disintegrated the wall down to its sub-atomic/fundamental particles and causing an explosion powerful enough to turn the planet into a lifeless ball of lava...or something to that extent

and about archer!herakles vs archer, i'm probably going with archer here...

I think I misunderstood you if thats the case. When you called John Pen Index's overrated I thought you meant her power not her ability to think. Certainly her overall ability to plan a battle won't be high because of John Pen mode. But she still is one of the more stronger characters in ToAruVerse simpily because of her ability to use the power of the grimoires.

[Cruor]

Here's the scary thing though.

Just "kill" Herakles is not enough. He won't die if killed. Herakle's Battle Continuation is even more hardcore than Lancer (Lancer's is already hardcore enough).

You pretty much have to blow him up real good, like unrecognizable. Otherwise he will fight you forever (Lancer lasted half a day on Battle Continuation vs. Gilgamesh).

Bullshit. Lancer was walking around and talking for a bit after getting cut in half.

Hercules can fight, and then actually have a chance of not dying from having half of his head blown off.

That's more of God Hands territory. All we seen of Herc's BC was him tanking lots of weapons (which Archer's done) for like 15 minutes and seeing the description of what Archer did to Herc. Not even Nine Bullet Revolver really counts. That was God Hand. Even if he was say, down on his last life and had 'his head cut off' if he survived it would have been God Hand (as those lives he loses fucking come back).

Meanwhile, we've seen Lancer get stabbed through the heart with a weapon that shoots thousands of throngs upon entering the body hitting the heart and still get up kill Kotomine and beat up Shinji, walking around and trash talking Avenger (saying something like if he wasn't fading away he would have kicked Avenger's ass too) after getting cut in half, and surviving for half a day against Gil (and surviving so well Gil changed his opinion of him from a worthless dog to a Hero).