Badass Versus Thread

[Iceblade44]

Jeanne does exorcise Jack later on but all her standard seems to do to Darnicula is ward him off rather than actually hurt him. I can buy Karna being a sun demigod not having an effect on him, and I can sorta buy his Prana Burst not being super effective even if it's something he presumably gets by being a sun demigod, but it just seems weird that a guy who has sunlight attached to his skin wouldn't weaken a vampire.

But that's more gripes with the fight itself than a versus debate. It's mostly just to give context to the opinion that LoD Vlad isn't some kind of insane monster that wrecks 6 Servants at once, since again, no one but him could use an NP.

E: I guess an exorcism may not have worked on him, but I still feel like the fight was fairly heavily skewed towards making Darnicula look fantastic so that it'd make Amakusa look even better when he curbstomped him.

My guess was that now of them was in ideal situation to use their NP, lets break it down.

Karna - Bramaestra has a very big range so it makes sense he wouldn't use it in such a confined place and not only that but in his own base. The fight also wasn't that desperate enough for him the VS

Avicebron - He didn't have his completed, also he didn't really have any combat abilities other than the golems he was using.

Achilles - He doesn't have any offensively strong NPs other than his chariot, so that counts him out.

Atalanta - She has already used her NP two times before so there could have been some energy constraints, also the fact she was also in a closed in room also limits it since it comes from the sky.

Chiron - similar situation to Atalanta in that needs access to sky,

Jeanne - Her's is a defensive barrier not something to attack.

That's what I think was the circumstances about it anyway, I could be wrong on a few things and in retrospect this is really just excuses than hard facts.

[SpoonyViking]

is the super strong, no longer Servant but monster now who can physically handle several servants at once LoD Vlad in Apo vol 2 the result of only LoD, or Darnic fusing with Vlad have something to do with it?

"Physically handle" is a generous estimate, I'd say. Not that Dracula was weak, but the thing about him, if I recall it correctly, is that the other Servants were having trouble preventing him from reaching the Grail, thanks to his regeneration, shapeshifting, ability to spam stakes from his body, and yes, even his physical power, which was enhanced - just not to such an extent as you seem to imply.

[Squirtodyle]

Yeah, it mostly comes down to the fact that the one time we see LoD in action in Apocrypha, it's in a situation where the lose-condition is "Darnicula gets past us" rather than "Darnicula kills us" and none of the opposing Servants are in a position to use their NPs. I'm of the opinion that it's not an instant win button, but that's just my take from what I know about it.

That being said, I'd probably give it to Iskandar if only because the sun is beating down on the desert in the IH, so Vlad's kinda fucked inside it.

[Iceblade44]

True, didn't consider that

[castor212]

oh yeah IH was pretty sunny

lol ok nvm then

[Altaris]

You guys need to reread again. Karna flame and Jeanne's Flag do have effect on Vlad. It's just that Karna never bother to go full all out like he did in Vol 5 against Sieg, and for some reason Jeanne's flag is a scrub equipment compared to Black Keys against Vampire

[castor212]

but stil, everybody fighting vlad got a boost from Jeanne's CS and physcailly, even taking NP out of account, they're still pretty desperate against him since they cant turtle against him

mm this is kinda murky

also, Altaris, wasnt kotoshirou Black Keys described as abnormal? Jeanne's flag was doing pretty fine against Vlad, repelling his attacks and systematically cornering him, (or smth along the lines), and after Vlad ran to the GG, he thought that the Black Keys Shirou is using is way stronger than normal Black Keys.

[Altaris]

Yeah the ones used by Amakusa were stronger than normal Black Keys.

[castor212]

yeah so i guess its not that her flag is scrub. more like shirou's black keys is legendary equipment

[Asunder]

Well Black Keys get stronger depending on the faith of the person using them and the person they're used on right?

[AvengerEmiya]

Kojiro vs Yoda

[Tobias]

Well let's see, kojiro has a massive speed advantage...but that's all he has. Even if you argue he is a better swordsman, which itself is kind of debateable, yoda has hundreds of years of experience. A light saber would devestate kojiro's weapon and it would be unlikely for kojiro to get a speed blitz kill on yoda due to his mastery of the force...which on that note, even if you bring in the "can be actually kill a servant" aspect, it's pretty likely yoda actually could. The force would very likely work on a servant.

so...yeah, surprisingly simple victory for yoda.

[RoydGolden]

It's nice to see a Star Wars versus that for once doesn't bring in the absolutely ludicrous feats present in the expanded universe. Seriously, between stuff like mind-controlling entire planets full of people at once and destroying entire starships, I've seriously come across people citing expanded materials (all of dubious canonicity) to argue that Luke or Darth Vader should be able to absolutely curbstomp Arturia (for example) without question.

[Mcjon01]

Isn't Yoda that puppet that lives in a swamp and slowly lifted a small spaceship with his mind once? Did he do something impressive somewhere? I've only seen the OT.

[You]

Well Black Keys get stronger depending on the faith of the person using them and the person they're used on right?

ish

However, a crucifix will only be effective on vampires that were originally Christians. If the official religion when they were human wasn't Catholicism, it becomes much more difficult for the crucifix to generate an effect.
On the other hand, if the vampire used to be a Christian, then even if the human under attack is not a believer the crucifix will have an effect on its own.
Of course, it goes without saying that the effect will be greatest if they are both believers.

[Rafflesiac]

RIP Vlad lol

[RoydGolden]

ish

That's actually really interesting. Reminds me of stuff my dad and I used to joke about on whether crucifixes would work on vampires that weren't Christian. I guess a Jewish vampire would be immune to crucifixes but weak to, say, a star of David instead? Makes me wonder if an atheist vampire could be scorched by a copy of Bertrand Russell's History Of Western Philosophy...

[Kirby]

Ciel vs Amakusa

[Rafflesiac]

Amakusa's fairly third rate, but iirc his physical stats are all Cs so I think he's stronger than her. Circuit hacking should let him copy or neutralize any of Roa's spells. Assuming the win condition is just to kill her temporarily I'd say Amakusa takes it.

[You]

if Ciel is "can fight defensively against Servants." Then Amakusa is "can fight defensively against A rank Servants" the Servant.