Badass Versus Thread

[You]

But the “boom” wouldn’t do anything to add to the freezing.

It's easier to hit a stationary target?

[Arashi_Leonhart]

But the “boom” wouldn’t do anything to add to the freezing.

Why does it have to? They're just two techniques. One's to seal movement and the other kills.

I'm honestly confused as to what you're reading out of its description.

[fumei]

It adds a whole lot of "now you're probably dead" instead of just stopping someone in their tracks.

[8000]

I’m assuming it still reverses causality which makes it harder to reconcile differences between GBA and Cu. But there’s no confirmation either way.

[You]

I’m assuming it still reverses causality which makes it harder to reconcile differences between GBA and Cu. But there’s no confirmation either way.

reversal of causality = always hit

cu chooses the heart as a target so he always hits the heart.

[eddyak]

I was just assuming it stops somebody in place (or at least puts them in a predictable flight path) by stabbing into their limbs. I'm pretty sure there are four gae laesers when she uses the pin move.

Using the flag means jeanne needs to be stationary and the flag has a limit to how damage it can take.

I really doubt the poison's gonna be doing a hundredth as much damage as Crying Warmonger, tbh.

[Iceblade44]

reversal of causality = always hit

cu chooses the heart as a target so he always hits the heart.

I don't buy that, since if her spear is really doing a reversal of causality then what is it making always hit? If it was to make her spear always hit the target then that would apply to her second spear. Her first spear just makes the target stuck in the air, and while that does make her second spear always hit it doesn't work the same way as changing the process of events by having the result first followed by the process, which is what reversal of causality means. At no point in the exchange of stabbing and getting hit involves having someone be pined in the air. What she does is essentially setting up a target then aiming for it, doesn't seem like anything Fate altering there.

[You]

I don't buy that, since if her spear is really doing a reversal of causality then what is it making always hit? If it was to make her spear always hit the target then that would apply to her second spear. Her first spear just makes the target stuck in the air, and while that does make her second spear always hit it doesn't work the same way as changing the process of events by having the result first followed by the process, which is what reversal of causality means. At no point in the exchange of stabbing and getting hit involves having someone be pined in the air. What she does is essentially setting up a target then aiming for it, doesn't seem like anything Fate altering there.

Spear 1 = Reverse casuality curse: effect = fix opponent in air
spear 2 = Convert casuality curse into pure magical energy = bomb

cu gae bolg is a spear with the curse always hit the heart, it reverses casuality to perform this
however, you can convert that curse into pure magical energy, that is gae bolg thrown

it's exactly the same as gandr's effect of making ppl sick, but if you load it with a ton of magical energy, you can shoot it like a bullet.

Therefore scathach is the same
first spear is the reversal of casuality attack
second spear is the burst attack

[Iceblade44]

I really doubt the poison's gonna be doing a hundredth as much damage as Crying Warmonger, tbh.

Yeah I mean, what makes poison deadly is how it gets into your body and mess it up, not necessarily what effect it has on objects? Though I would think the Bashmu's poison would certainly have an acidic or corrosive attribute to it, compared to just plain attacks of energy it would fall short.

[madarra]

Summon Basmu->Jeanne uses Flag-> Bombard flag with Ex rank magic till it gets canceled?

[You]

I really doubt the poison's gonna be doing a hundredth as much damage as Crying Warmonger, tbh.

Bashmu's a Divine Beast. It's got more than its poison.

The giant poisonous snake summoned by Semiramis, Assassin of “Red,” with the power of “Sikera Ušum: Arrogant King's Alcohol.” It is one of the eleven demons birthed by the monster of Babylonian legend, Tiamat. It is a species of Divine Beast, the top of all Phantasmal Species, but even Semiramis wouldn't be able to summon something so powerful in that rushed situation, so she only summoned its top-half.
If Shishigou hadn't used a Command Spell on Mordred, she would have immediately died the instant Bašmu opened its mouth and released its poisonous breath.

Phantasmal Species (Phantasmal Beasts of the Millennium-Rank, and Divine Beasts)
The creatures told in the myths and legends around the world. Dragons, Fairies, and Ghosts etc. are such examples. The Pegasus mounted by Rider is a member of the Phantasmal Species.
Phantasmal Species embody mysteries simply by existing, thus they transcend normal sorceries. Those Phantasmal Species that have survived for millennia are thought to be equal to True Magic, even observing one can be said to be a miracle.

If you're going to let a Divine Beast repeatedly wail on you, you're going to have a bad day.

[Iceblade44]

Spear 1 = Reverse casuality curse: effect = fix opponent in air
spear 2 = Convert casuality curse into pure magical energy = bomb

But that has nothing to do with Causality tho. Causality is just the process of going from cause to effect. Reversal of that is having the effect first then the cause. That's what Cu does, when he does Gae Bolg he already has his spear piercing your heart, his spear just tries to correct itself to make sure it fits with that conclusion thus you have an undodgeable spear thrust. Tho I guess what your trying to say here that the effect that's being reverse here is the "being pinned to the air" and how they got there which the spear somehow fulfils that role? That just seem very counter-constructive to me for having her spear just do an absurd thing and it still doesn't feel like what Cu does by altering Fate. Is that what your getting at?

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Summon Basmu->Jeanne uses Flag-> Bombard flag with Ex rank magic till it gets canceled?

Jeanne has completed immunity to Semi's magic, EX Rank MR hax.

[You]

But that has nothing to do with Causality tho. Causality is just the process of going from cause to effect. Reversal of that is having the effect first then the cause. That's what Cu does, when he does Gae Bolg he already has his spear piercing your heart, his spear just tries to correct itself to make sure it fits with that conclusion thus you have an undodgeable spear thrust. Tho I guess what your trying to say here that the effect that's being reverse here is the "being pinned to the air" and how they got there which the spear somehow fulfils that role? That just seem very counter-constructive to me for having her spear just do an absurd thing and it still doesn't feel like what Cu does by altering Fate. Is that what your getting at?

it's pretty explicit that its effect is "stitches to opponent into fixed space"
all cu's is, is when he says gae bolg there's a curse that activates and makes your heart already pierced when he said gae bolg.
don't see why the same thing can't happen here. When she says GBA you're already stitched. It's like the ultimate stunlock.

[8000]

Well if it’s not causality reversal, I guess the match would be GoS or bust.

[Iceblade44]

it's pretty explicit that its effect is "stitches to opponent into fixed space"
all cu's is, is when he says gae bolg there's a curse that activates and makes your heart already pierced when he said gae bolg.
don't see why the same thing can't happen here. When she says GBA you're already stitched. It's like the ultimate stunlock.

I guess so, it just feels very pointless when compared to what Cu can do which is an always lethal attack and feels like to much prep work for a technique that's supposed to be undodgeable anyway. Well props to Cu I guess for being more efficient.

Still doesn't feel like what she does is on the 'almost authority' which Gae Bolg was called.

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Well if it’s not causality reversal, I guess the match would be GoS or bust.

I think I am now convince by You's argument of it being reversal causality, just a pointless use of it. Still wouldn't do much to Siegfried anyway since it wouldn't get past the Rank nullification. GoS would seemed to be the game breaker regardless, tho from the looks of it Siegfried won't have an easy time with it by the look of his Magic and Luck stats, tho then again nether did Cu Alter and he still pulled through.

[You]

I guess so, it just feels very pointless when compared to what Cu can do which is an always lethal attack and feels like to much prep work for a technique that's supposed to be undodgeable anyway. Well props to Cu I guess for being more efficient.

Still doesn't feel like what she does is on the 'almost authority' which Gae Bolg was called.

reversal of causality has a second effect too

"Don't worry. I didn't hit his heart. But the curse is still there.
Even you should know the curse of this lance. This is the 'lance of cause and effect', that reverses the cause and the effect. The one cursed by this thing cannot change their fate unless they have great luck."

The one cursed cannot heal and bears the wound until they die. As long as this lance exists."

Since the effect is like a curse. If it hits, it stands no matter what unless the curse is gone.
The weakness of Cu Gae Bolg is that it's a curse that targets hearts. If the opponent does not have a heart then it just isn't lethal.

Does Lancer's Gáe Bolg not have any effect on anything without a heart, like certain creatures and machines? <Madao Gingetsu>
Takeuchi It's you again.
Nasu Placing a cause reversal curse on something without a heart would not work. But you can use it to physically stab someone.
Takeuchi Oh, I see. So like coming in clean from behind and destroying their central cavity.

However, everything and anything can be fixed in a space.
And this definitely is useful when...

Is that his Noble Phantasm?
The arrow distorts space itself, showing off the whirlwind in its path.

"Haah……!"
Caster's moaning fills the air.
The storm-like arrow has easily penetrated Caster's defense.

Guessing from that distortion in space
I bet Caster would have been twisted along with space itself even if Caster had transported herself.

While different, the end result is the same. Since the curse literally sews you into the space, you can't teleport or do AOG magi stuff like that.
And guess what time period Scathach was active?

It definitely has its own advantage.

[8000]

Oh so Scathach doesn’t seem to bypass durability with GBA...I see.

[Rafflesiac]

What ever said that lol

[LeadDemon]

Jeanne has completed immunity to Semi's magic, EX Rank MR hax.

Luminosite says it "converts EX MR into defense", so between that, the fact that it locks Jeanne, and her MR being based on "avoiding", I'd say you can probably slap her with magecraft just fine when it's up.

The bigger issue though isn't Semi shooting beams so much as a Divine Beast hitting the flag until there's no more flag. I'm not sure Jeanne's got what it takes to deal with something like Bashmu without suiciding. Of course, if she's able to shank Semi down before she can summon Bashmu or if she just uses CSs or something then that's another animal entirely.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

It definitely has its own advantage.

I'd think it'd be a better way to gank Artoria since she was able to Instinct and Luck her way out of the way Cu does it, but in Scathach's case she'd just be full-on stuck. But then Cu's would be better against those with passive armors or tanking health defenses or such.

Like, Scathach: good against avoidance
Cu: good against mitigation