Badass Versus Thread

[8000]

Not seeing anything to put David on Achilles' level. Would he even be able to hurt him?

[Arashi_Leonhart]

With the power of god he'd hit Achilles' heel.

But then Achilles would headbut him and he'd fall like a sack of potatoes.

But then they would bond over their luck with women.

[Iceblade44]

As a Servant i'm sure he could take one or two hits, but he definitely seems outclassed.
David seems more like a Ranger type of Servant who gets through situations with the power of god and his own resourcefulness. Not really a fighter.

Yeah that I agree with, David's greatest weapons are his wits and his mental state. His parameters aren't that impressive and his Noble Phantasms are on a sliding scale between useful and powerful. He is a classic Archer type Servant who has to utilise his NPs in the correct situations to achieve victory. In a straight melee with Achilles he would lose, tho I do think he can outsmart Achilles, but probably not in the same way as Chiron did using his general knowledge of heroes and his personal history with him. David is the underdog in the fight, both in here and in myth. But I do think he can pull off the craziness needed to beat Achilles.

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Not seeing anything to put David on Achilles' level. Would he even be able to hurt him?

D rank Divinity. 75% percent of his damage will get through to him.

And the reason I put David against Achilles is simple, while Achilles is an almighty hero, so is David tho the way he expresses it is different. Instead of overwhelming his opponents with his awesome might, David wins battles using his wits and his belief in God to surpass all adversaries no matter how strong, and the thing about David is that his belief isn't just an optimistic prayer but an actual thing. He is God's chosen King after all. So yeah just looking at specs he is outclassed by Achilles, in both power and quality as heroes. But David is the kind of Servant all though weak, has the skill set and power to take down stronger foes if he uses his wits. So that's why I wanted to see how he do against Achilles.

[Iceblade44]

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But then they would bond over their luck with women.

Now I just want to see them go across town hitting on girls as the two green-headed playboys.

[8000]

I think that's overthinking it a little when we have so little information about David to be asserting how good he actually is. Achilles has better stats and more useful NPs, it's pretty simple.

Also in Okeanos David needed help from a group of servants to beat Hercules and even then it only worked because he'd been conveniently summoned nearby so they could use the Ark. Achilles would obviously be a different kind of opponent, but I don't think the showing really projects David as A list.

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Now I just want to see them go across town hitting on girls as the two green-headed playboys.

Incidentally they both hit on Atalanta who also has green hair. Teeny bit narcissistic?

[Arashi_Leonhart]

David isn't A list. But neither is Chiron, and that matchup, while obviously tilted by Chiron also knowing Achilles, is also a demonstration of how raw power =/= winning. It's very much an Archer thing. David is similar; despite his whole womanizer exterior, his most recent interlude in particular shows that he's far more aware and savy than he lets on.

[Draconic]

Now I just want to see them go across town hitting on girls as the two green-headed playboys.

Post this in the fanfic ideas thread.
No, seriously.
Ask me to write that fic in the fanfic ideas thread as a formal request and I will fucking do it.

[8000]

David isn't A list. But neither is Chiron, and that matchup, while obviously tilted by Chiron also knowing Achilles, is also a demonstration of how raw power =/= winning. It's very much an Archer thing. David is similar; despite his whole womanizer exterior, his most recent interlude in particular shows that he's far more aware and savy than he lets on.

While that's true, that's Chiron's own accomplishment and David hasn't really done anything similar.

I guess he could win with Sacrifice. Even at 75% an A rank attack should be enough to to drop a servant. Not sure if it could reliably hit Achilles though and he can block it with the shield.

[Iceblade44]

I think that's overthinking it a little when we have so little information about David to be asserting how good he actually is. Achilles has better stats and more useful NPs, it's pretty simple.

Also in Okeanos David needed help from a group of servants to beat Hercules and even then it only worked because he'd been conveniently summoned nearby so they could use the Ark. Achilles would obviously be a different kind of opponent, but I don't think the showing really projects David as A list.

I'm not saying David is A list, that's not how he fights. He's not an OP hero like Karna or Herk, he can't win in a straight matchup. What David can do is figure out and maneuver a way that he can win however. He's like Emiya in that regard, he's not an A Lister, but he can sure make the ones that are a run for their money. That is if he's smart anyway.

In terms of NPs I don't think Achilles is necessarily more useful when faced off against David. For first thing David has Divinity so he can hurt Achilles, tho as it's D only 75% of it goes through. I doubt Achilles would paticualy use either his shield or his spear against David either, not the right circumstances. His chariot can probably take David out in one hit, but Achilles being hit by his sling like that would make it all fall apart. Achilles also has David beat in a melee, tho I doubt that David would initiate that in the first place. Ok now let's see how David's NP would go against Achilles. The Ark is a sure-win but unlikely thanks to it's nature so that's out. His sling would probably be pretty effective against Achilles, tho it is unlikely Achilles does have the speed to maybe dodge it, maybe. Sacrifice I can see doing some serious damage, tho I don't know if it can kill Achilles with a quarter of it's power gone, tho it's still gonna hurt as hell. Overall I see it as a pretty hard fight on David's side all things considering, tho not without it's affects. I can see Achilles winning but I won't rule out David.

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While that's true, that's Chiron's own accomplishment and David hasn't really done anything similar.

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That's the problem, your asking for stuff David has done despite him playing a minor role through out the story so we really can't give you anything on that front. All we can give you is stuff that is said he can or is hinted at he can do, from how he is described in his mats and profile. That's pretty much all we can do until he get's a central role to see what he can do.

[You]

But I do think he can pull off the craziness needed to beat Achilles.

That's very unlikely

[8000]

That's the problem, your asking for stuff David has done despite him playing a minor role through out the story so we really can't give you anything on that front. All we can give you is stuff that is said he can or is hinted at he can do, from how he is described in his mats and profile. That's pretty much all we can do until he get's a central role to see what he can do.

I mean yeah, servants with fights we can assess do have an advantage over servants that don't. Specially when it comes to NPs because there are a lot of unknowns surrounding the GO servants'

Anyway I can mostly agree with your assessment of the fight, but I'm not sure how good the sling would actually be against Achilles' speed. I think Achilles has too much of an advantage against Archers because he can tank low output ranged attacks and his speed/maneuverability with or without the chariot makes him hard to take down. We really just don't know how much damage the individual sling shots do or how hard they are for top tier servants to avoid.

Also I just realized Sacrifice is only mentioned in the Apo mats. Do we actually know if it carried over to GO?

[Iceblade44]

Sacrifice was also mentioned in GO mats.

Also Hameshs isn't that damaging power-rise, it's main effects being forceful automatic KO and that the Servant's armament either becomes unusable or it's now David's.

Also Davis's shot is described as extremely difficult to evade , as such the possibility is there. Just very hard to do.

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That's very unlikely

True, but I can see it happening. Still unlikely

[8000]

I thought it was a forceful KO because it was so powerful. Anyway I'd rather see it in practice, there are unknowns about how it would work against servants. I remember the Argo crew could defend against a the sling getting spammed along with the archers' other NPs, but Hercules was there so that wouldn't have been hard.

[You]

Also I just realized Sacrifice is only mentioned in the Apo mats. Do we actually know if it carried over to GO?

its the same description
that is basically none

[Iceblade44]

The KOs the effect, the shot itself is described as being non-lethal. In the description it says that the opponent will be temporarily unconscious if their hit, of course how long they stay down is the unknown part. Anyway the KO isn't a side effect of being hit by the shot, it's it intended effect.

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its the same description
that is basically none

I want to see David use it someday. The hottest flames that God commands that will burn everything including their blood sure sounds impressive, that's it tho if we don't have anything to compare it.

[8000]

Kinda feels like it should've come up in Okeanos lol...well it probably did off-screen.

[Nobody]

Ishtar vs Cu

[8000]

Depends on starting distance. I guess Cu would win at usual range. Doubt she could do much up close.

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Achilles vs Medusa vs Iskandar in a mount battle.

They can only fight using their mounts and lose if it gets destroyed.

[Rafflesiac]

Caesar vs Beowulf, battle of the aimbot swords.

[Iceblade44]

Caesar vs Beowulf, battle of the aimbot swords.

Beowulf has A luck. Ceasar getting a sword in the gut.