"Only" supersonic.
You know how Saber runs up the side of a building in her fight with Medusa? Speed Demon can do that with ease. He can also run on water without any blessing from the Lady of the Lake. So yeah, he's far, far below the Flash's level, but he's still a speedster - someone supposed to be hard to hit. And even then, Spider-Man has fought him and his Sinister Syndicate buddies all at once, and won.
Last edited by SpoonyViking; February 14th, 2018 at 11:20 AM.
His clones are all weaker than he is with the exception of maybe Kaine, I don't see what they have to do with anything.Originally Posted by 8000
Utterly wrong, as Spoony already said Peter has caught and fought Speed Demon without being helpless before, including reacting to him in their first encounter. People seem to forget Spidey's abilities like his spider-sense aren't constant, they fluctuate with his body/mental state.Peter has also consistently blitzed by Speed Demon who is only supersonic on average, sometimes to the point of being utterly helpless to tag him (incidentally Speed Demon was moving fast enough to throw 100 blows in a second in one of those cases. Sounds familiar).
Firelord is an actual outlier for Spider-man because the way he was defeated is impossible for a fire elemental weaker than him. Spider-man running fast isn't because that's literally what he does over decades of comics.I understand what an outlier is (not sure where that came up before?), outliers aren't all on the same level. Some are massively above others but still not consistent either way.
Last edited by Qinglong; February 14th, 2018 at 11:23 AM.
Not to mention Firelord trades blows with Thanos. The fight between them was actually fairly believable, with Spider-Man surviving by the skin of his teeth and Firelord just shrugging off everything Spidey threw at him, it was the ending - when Spidey takes him out in hand-to-hand - which was laughable.
But eh, comics.
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Also, to be fair, Ben Reilly was actually on the same level as Peter in terms of raw power, what he lacked was the years of experience Peter had had since being cloned.
Speed Demon can run up buildings. Not sure where I suggested otherwise. He's also been reacted to casually by Luke Cage and Swordsman.
Servants have speed feats that actually blow his completely out of the water, and even Emiya and CS restricted Cu replicated one of his all time best speed feats. Servants do however have very inconsistent speeds, so I wouldn't disagree with you if you argued every feat they have above supersonic is inconsistent, but I think they should still be in the same range as Speed Demon at worse. Anyone that fast with superhuman strength, a weapon, or other powers of any sort would stomp Spider-Man.
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I was talking about Ben and Kaine.His clones are all weaker than he is with the exception of maybe Kaine, I don't see what they have to do with anything.
First would mean outdated since Speed Demon got a boost from Grandmaster later. Superior Spider-Man was blitzed by him so badly he decided to run away and when Peter first fought Speed Demon after his amp he failed to tag him once.Utterly wrong, Peter Catches speed Demon several times, including reacting to him in their first encounter.
Even when Peter does tag him it's only after being thoroughly outsped and pulling it off eventually with Spider-Sense. If Speed Demon had the means to seriously hurt Peter, he would've murdered him.
The Firelord feat isn't even relevant because Firelord showed no particular speed there so it wouldn't help.Firelord is an actual outlier for Spider-man because the way he was defeated is impossible for a fire elemental weaker than him. Spider-man running fast isn't because that's literally what he does over decades of comics.
"Running fast" is not always the same. Speed feats can be of very different qualities so I don't know why you would think all speed feats are consistent. Particularly given how often Peter has struggled with much slower opponents.
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Don't think he has. Firelord is very low on the high tier spectrum. But if we're discussing speed that instance doesn't matter because assuming Firelord has combat speed (I do not know if he does or not), he didn't use it there.Not to mention Firelord trades blows with Thanos.
http://i.imgur.com/ZO5ldlG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cWm9dFb.jpg
https://imgur.com/a/jpnIw
seriously moving fast isn't anything unusual for Pete so no, it's not really an outlier.
Dock Pete can't even use his all of his abilities like Pete can, the major difference is he doesn't hold back his strikes like Pete does because Pete doesn't want to kill people.
y'all nerds
None of those feats are even comparable to the one posted earlier. Moving fast is obviously normal for Peter. It's how fast he can actually move I'm questioning.
Also those are travel speed and combat speed is more relevant. I can't picture Peter throwing 100 blows in a second.
Wait did you seriously bring up Luke Cage? Luke Cage has fought Namor off, granted he was out of water but he is definitely above the street tier and a list of meta characters.
Namor literally fodderized Cage. Also that has nothing to do with speed which is what I'm discussing.
I'm not saying Speed Demon is actually that slow, but he does have low showings too.
Everyone has low showings, that doesn't negate the factors around said or other showings. As already stated Spidey's performance is directly impacted by his physical and mental state and also by his experience, when he first started he was literally just a teenager and he's improved over time plus he has a no kill clause so he holds back when fighting many opponents. And Cage was able to withstand his hits while dry. Namor going all out wrecks him though.
Most of them actually don't. Saber and Medusa treating the rules of physics more like guidelines in that fight is one of the top-tier speed feats in the original VN, and Speed Demon does that regularly.
It was in a story arc in "Thor". Regardless, I was commenting on Firelord's endurance. He CAN fly through space at faster-than-light speeds, but he's not particularly known for his agility.Don't think he has.
If you want to write off every low showing as irrelevant, then you have to take Gilgamesh lightning timing as a serious feat. Peter holding back can only write-off instances so much when it wouldn't affect his ability to dodge opponents.
Consistency is a much better way to measure feats. Based on consistency Spider-Man is either slightly above or below the speed of sound, and servants should be several times faster.
yeah and by "consistency" gilgamesh and Karna have lost the majority of their fights, guess they're nothing special
He shouldn't be supersonic, no, but his agility plus spider-sense should be enough to deal with pure speed.
What would really give him trouble, I think, isn't Cú Chulainn's spear or speed, but his fighting skills. Spidey has had lots of experience with fighting super-powered people, but no technical training; against someone who is roughly on his power level, or slightly above him, he should be at a disadvantage. His spider-sense can more than make up for that when it comes to defense, but not when it comes to offense.
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That said, Spidey is quite smart, and he's much more adept at using the environment. As long as he can stay away from pure hand-to-hand, I'd give him the better odds of winning.
Spidey has been trained to fight with and without his Spider Sense, but no writer cares about that.
Most of them don't have feats like that, but it's been well established top tier servants have speed relative to each other bar non-melee based ones like Ozymandias.Most of them actually don't. Saber and Medusa treating the rules of physics more like guidelines in that fight is one of the top-tier speed feats in the original VN, and Speed Demon does that regularly.
I consider that a majorly low end speed feat actually, especially when you consider feats from other sources. Reacting to arrows that cross 4 kilometers in a second, throwing 100 blows in a second (performed by Emiya who's outclassed by high end servants in speed), Saber and Diarmuid fighting at continuously FTE speed, and Gilgamesh catching a lightning speed arrow all speak towards servants having hypersonic combat speed. But then you have Lobo moving at 200 KMPH being treated like a big deal, Cursed Arm failing to blitz Kirei who isn't a bullet timer, numerous showings of poor travel speed, and yes, Saber and Rider taking a decently long time to run up that building (which I consider a very low showing indeed compared to the good ones).
It's clear the series isn't meant for cross-universe speed comparisons so making any really comes down to opinion. IMO it's not even debatable if the scale of the servants good feats dwarf Speed Demon's, but if you don't think those feats are consistent I wouldn't really be able to argue with you.
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Those fights have context. Not relevant at all.
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Honest question, do you actually think their strength and durability are similar? Servants in general should dwarf Peter given Hercules' strikes being described as mountain busting and random weapons from GoB being described the same way, but I consider their power as inconsistent as their speed. Not that I think Peter would be able to register in strength and durability anyway, but it's arguable.
why are you equating movement speed with reaction speed and nimbleness speed
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like, they may all fall under AGI but theyre all, like, totally different.
Last edited by castor212; February 14th, 2018 at 01:30 PM.
At a certain point the disparity isn't massive. Someone without enough movement speed you wouldn't be able to move their body fast enough to tag someone who does. I consider Peter's travel feats different because he's swinging on webs and essentially propelling himself via strength.
Because the Agi stat accounts for both REEE
"Only in my company, will you not be a monster"
anywhere than here
Basically, I think it's absurd someone who, for example, couldn't outrace an arrow for the life of them, could keep pace with a hypersonic character, unless there was a god-tier disparity in skills.
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