Badass Versus Thread

[RoydGolden]

By adapting it means In a mental way, like how it is with Sasaki

I know that it said mental, but I wondered if it could cover physical adaptation as well.

[Deathhappens]

If Beowulf assplodes nageling and Hrunting that's a A rank Broken Phantasm and a A+10 Broken Phantasm.
Don't know how this "weapon mastery" is going to nullfy two mushroom clouds.

Beowulf: *charges ahead with glowing swords*
Lance: "Hmm, that looks dangerous, It might be a good idea to use my high agility and mastery of all combat techniques and... idk, touch it and make it mine".
Beowulf: "lolhax"

(We're talking about a guy who grabbed Gil's weapons fired at mach whatever and instantly used them to parry more weapons coming behind at the same speed, remember).
Then it's back to fisticuffs.

Also Grendel Buster says that it reverts Beowulf to the prime of his strength for an instant, but his profile already says he's been summoned at his prime, so I guess real life human > heroic spirit in a can now? We must be using some pretty shitty containers.

[RoydGolden]

Also Grendel Buster says that it reverts Beowulf to the prime of his strength for an instant, but his profile already says he's been summoned at his prime, so I guess real life human > heroic spirit in a can now? We must be using some pretty shitty containers.

Servants being weaker than when they were alive has been a rule ever since the original VN, so it's not like this is anything new.

[castor212]

I can see Hrunting taking a life or two, maybe three. Naegling could take a life if he purposely make it Broken but that's it.

This is strictly fistfight tho

[Iceblade44]

Servants being weaker than when they were alive has been a rule ever since the original VN, so it's not like this is anything new.

Basically in brief. Even if a Servant is normally summoned in their prime it doesn't mean that they are at their absolute strongest, especially in the case of mythical heroes. Siegfried is a clear example of this, the mats clearly state he was stronger as a human then as a Servant and he's not the only one. Gilgamesh and Karna are some higher power examples, but Heracles and Cu Chullan also count. The main reason for this is because of NPs. Even if these heroes had mortal bodies there NPs were the same and not as limited by class and mana so they were stronger. Of course this doesn't apply to every Servant but it does have precedent. Beowulf is much the same, the strongest he has ever been was when he fought Grendal. So much so everything after and before pale at that, thus why he has that moment as an NP.

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This is strictly fistfight tho

Fist fight was only for Chiron and Li

[castor212]

Servants being weaker than when they were alive has been a rule ever since the original VN, so it's not like this is anything new.

Its not a rule anymore

More like 50:50 at this point

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Fist fight was only for Chiron and Li

I thought its a fistfight battle royale

BersHerk vs Beowulf, Lancer Li and Chiron in a fistfight

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Also Grendel Buster says that it reverts Beowulf to the prime of his strength for an instant, but his profile already says he's been summoned at his prime, so I guess real life human > heroic spirit in a can now? We must be using some pretty shitty containers.

Think of it like this.
Normal beowulf is primed race car, full maintenance.
Beowulf when defeating grendel had nitro turbo boost on in the midst of the race.

[RoydGolden]

Its not a rule anymore

More like 50:50 at this point

True. I doubt Servants like Shakespeare or Andersen were slinging around magic or reality-warping abilities in their original lives...

[Deathhappens]

Servants being weaker than when they were alive has been a rule ever since the original VN, so it's not like this is anything new.

True,but my understanding was that this is due to Servants losing some of their abilities (Cu's runes, Diarmuid's swords etc) in order to fit their class containers. A shitty master might not be able to support a Servant to their fullest extent (see Shirou!Saber vs Rin!Saber) but with the new summoning system that shouldn't be a problem.

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Its not a rule anymore

More like 50:50 at this point

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I thought its a fistfight battle royale



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Think of it like this.
Normal beowulf is primed race car, full maintenance.
Beowulf when defeating grendel had nitro turbo boost on in the midst of the race.

Ok, but why?
To wit,where did the nitro come from?

[castor212]

Who knows. Maybe adrenaline boost or shonen willpower.

But the very moment of defeating grendel is Beowulf's momentary top of the top, so its now a transient NP.

[You]

Beowulf: *charges ahead with glowing swords*
Lance: "Hmm, that looks dangerous, It might be a good idea to use my high agility and mastery of all combat techniques and... idk, touch it and make it mine".
Beowulf: "lolhax"

Actually Lancelot would be thinking :AKLJDASF;FASDLJKGASDKJLFJLKSDAF A R T H U R LJKASDKJLFASDKJLFKJLSADFKJLSADDJFFJASD;LK
because he's cray cray
Also touching something does not instantly make it his. It takes a little while.
Also even if he doesn't always listen to it Beowulf does have Instinct.
But that's beside the point. Since your statement was that "weapon mastery" would nullify the damage done from Beo's broken phantasms.

At best, Beo might have a small advantage if he manages to use Naegling and Hrunting both as Broken Phantasms? But Lance's weapon mastery would also be in full effect then, so he'd still find a way to nullify most of the damage,at least.

But "weapon mastery" cannot do anything after those weapons have turned into broken phantasms, that is they've exploded. And there is no way that he would nullify the damage after they've turned into Broken Phantasms.
Yes, that would probably mean Beowulf would be dead too but that's also beside the point.

[castor212]

Can EAM make me expert bomb defuser

[Deathhappens]

Actually Lancelot would be thinking :AKLJDASF;FASDLJKGASDKJLFJLKSDAF A R T H U R LJKASDKJLFASDKJLFKJLSADFKJLSADDJFFJASD;LK
because he's cray cray
Also touching something does not instantly make it his. It takes a little while.
Also even if he doesn't always listen to it Beowulf does have Instinct.
But that's beside the point. Since your statement was that "weapon mastery" would nullify the damage done from Beo's broken phantasms.

But "weapon mastery" cannot do anything after those weapons have turned into broken phantasms, that is they've exploded. And there is no way that he would nullify the damage after they've turned into Broken Phantasms.
Yes, that would probably mean Beowulf would be dead too but that's also beside the point.

I said it before,but it bears repeating: In that precise scene where Lance grabs Gil's weapons and goes full QTE, Iskander notes that despite his Mad Enhancement Lancelot's skill and discernment have not deteriorated in the slightest. It's not just that he still knows how to swing a sword,his judgement in deflecting Gil's NP's using Gil's NP's was top notch.
Secondly, while we know that Beo can break Naegling and Hrunting and that it releases an A+ attack while doing so, that doesn't mean the swords in his hands just suddenly explode in the enemy's face. Most likely given his fighting style,it's some big all or nothing attack, and it's far from a stretch to assume that a skill that signifies you're a master in armed combat can't help you deal with a big obvious glowy sword attack. Add in Knight of Owner (which DOES work that fast; again, grabbed a Gil NP bullet in midair and near-instantly used it to parry the rest) and even if he can't turn the damage on Beowulf he can at least make sure he avoids most or all of it. That's what I meant by "nullifies using EAM", if it wasn't clear enough before.

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Can EAM make me expert bomb defuser

If you can get EAM as a 21st century heroic spirit (lol), then sure.

edit: why am I lowercasing Arms in Eternal Arms Mastery anyway

[SpoonyViking]

My first thought is that Beowulf vs. Berserker!Lancelot would be a close fight, but one which Beowulf would win. But then I thought: Beowulf was a monster slayer, while Lancelot was a master duellist (even if he still had a few monster-hunting exploits); wouldn't that give the edge to Lancelot, even if only slightly?

[You]

I said it before,but it bears repeating: In that precise scene where Lance grabs Gil's weapons and goes full QTE, Iskander notes that despite his Mad Enhancement Lancelot's skill and discernment have not deteriorated in the slightest. It's not just that he still knows how to swing a sword,his judgement in deflecting Gil's NP's using Gil's NP's was top notch.
Secondly, while we know that Beo can break Naegling and Hrunting and that it releases an A+ attack while doing so, that doesn't mean the swords in his hands just suddenly explode in the enemy's face. Most likely given his fighting style,it's some big all or nothing attack, and it's far from a stretch to assume that a skill that signifies you're a master in armed combat can't help you deal with a big obvious glowy sword attack. Add in Knight of Owner (which DOES work that fast; again, grabbed a Gil NP bullet in midair and near-instantly used it to parry the rest) and even if he can't turn the damage on Beowulf he can at least make sure he avoids most or all of it. That's what I meant by "nullifies using EAM", if it wasn't clear enough before.

A rank NP Broken Phantasm
Now multiply it by 2

Also

Berserker threw away the machine guns, trapping the blade of Invisible Air between his bare hands before her eyes. That consummate skill was unbelievable on two counts: the first was that he had used an impossible stance to respond to Saber’s follow-up killing blow, and the second was that he had done so even though it was impossible to perceive the path of Invisible Air. But the Black Knight had grabbed the white blade with his bare hands to seal Saber’s attack as if he had known every detail of Saber’s sword, from the shape to the length, like the back of his hand.

Saber suddenly realized the fatal danger of having Berserker come into contact with her weapon; she shuddered violently. She banished the astonishment of her heart to the back of her mind and used all her strength to kick out towards the black knight’s chest. Berserker, who could not take the blow and was forced to retreat, released the precious sword, allowing Saber’s beloved weapon to narrowly escape the danger of being corroded by the other’s black magic.

There is a lag vs the moment Lancelot touches a noble phantasm on the verge of exploding it's going to detonate.

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But then I thought: Beowulf was a monster slayer, while Lancelot was a master duellist (even if he still had a few monster-hunting exploits); wouldn't that give the edge to Lancelot, even if only slightly?

Yeah, beowulf specializes against monsters, not humans. While Lancelot I think did both but was a really against people too.

[SpoonyViking]

I mean, poem!Beowulf fought a lot more human opponents than monstrous ones, but since TM goes with him being primarily a monster slayer (probably because, to be fair, he's most well-known for fighting monsters), that makes sense, right?

[Deathhappens]

A rank NP Broken Phantasm
Now multiply it by 2

Worth noting here: This explosion barely scratched Herc. Herc has rank A Endurance. Lancelot also has rank A Endurance.
But, more importantly, Beowulf isn't firing these from a bow. He's breaking his swords by actually using them as swords. Unless we're assigning him suicidial tendencies, you should be thinking more along the lines of Crane Wing Three Realms than Caladbolg.

[castor212]

Herc has regen

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Its not barely scratch so much as the regen already kicked in

[Mcjon01]

Worth noting here: This explosion barely scratched Herc. Herc has rank A Endurance. Lancelot also has rank A Endurance.
But, more importantly, Beowulf isn't firing these from a bow. He's breaking his swords by actually using them as swords. Unless we're assigning him suicidial tendencies, you should be thinking more along the lines of Crane Wing Three Realms than Caladbolg.

Dude that explosion killed him lol

[You]

Worth noting here: This explosion barely scratched Herc. Herc has rank A Endurance. Lancelot also has rank A Endurance.
But, more importantly, Beowulf isn't firing these from a bow. He's breaking his swords by actually using them as swords. Unless we're assigning him suicidial tendencies, you should be thinking more along the lines of Crane Wing Three Realms than Caladbolg.

"Rin."
…No, she knows the principle behind it.
That was just a bomb.
He just exploded the bomb called the "Noble Phantasm" in front of his enemy.
It does not need to be said how extraordinary that was.
That was a one-time explosion of magical energy, using the strongest phantasm possible.
Broken Phantasm.
That is the name of the Noble Phantasm this knight in red possesses.

At best, Beo might have a small advantage if he manages to use Naegling and Hrunting both as Broken Phantasms? But Lance's weapon mastery would also be in full effect then, so he'd still find a way to nullify most of the damage,at least.

The moment you talked about broken phantasms we were talking about giant explosions that would harm both of them
there is no "using a broken phantasm" =/= giant explosions

[Deathhappens]

Dude that explosion killed him lol

I'm pretty sure there was some debate over that, but I'm not getting dragged into that one this time.

Main point still stands, unless we're assuming Beowulf is suicidal he's not going to explode the swords he's holding in his own hands no matter how much damage he could theoretically cause.

EDIT: Also, I thought Crane Wing Three Realms was a Broken Phantasm? Or did I confuse that with Trace Overedge?