"The story and all the mats say his entire body is immortal but I feel like it's just his skin so that's what I'll assume is true" okay gg bruh we're done here I guess
"The story and all the mats say his entire body is immortal but I feel like it's just his skin so that's what I'll assume is true" okay gg bruh we're done here I guess
I mean, even if "its just skin" the spear can't actually get around it, in that instance his skin is basically a shield
And we know that a shield that overwhelms the magical energy of the lance blocks Gae Bolg anyway
so even if its just skin, it's not going to be enough
The resistance stacks.Originally Posted by youcanthandlethetruth1992
THe more you hurt him, the more he resist it.
At which point the cut would be insignificant to even cut him deep enough to actually hurt him, much less kill him.
She just cut his arm and then Rin jumped down. I might be wrong. But Im 75% sure.I checked, and this doesnt happen. WHat happens is Saber swung the sword and it didnt even nick Herc.A weak Saber cut once on a unrestrained Berserker in the forest. Berserker also hit Saber before. Point is Herc can be beat by swordsmanship.
Saber didnt manage to cut him. As per the quote above, the slash by Saber didnt even manage to budge Herc even an inch."Stop…!!"Saber slashes at Berserker.
The invisible sword is swung at Berserker's defenseless arm as if chopping a vegetable.
But it has no effect.
The sword bounces back. Not only does it not hurt Berserker's arm, but it does not even loosen Berserker's grip on Tohsaka.
"!"
Herc cant by beaten by swordsmanship, because each A rank cut give him resistance. And the resistance stacks. The more you attack him, the more he would just heal it and increase his resistance against it.
This is detrimental because 2 reasons.Just retreat before you die. Live to fight again. That's all Im saying.
1) the stacked resistance Herc obtained does not go away. Even if you retreat and heal yourself to fight him again, Herc's is still more resistance towards your attacks than he was before.
2) the stock of regen God Hand has can be restored over time. So if you retreat to heal yourself, Herc does too.
SO if you retreat from first encounter to go back to full condition to fight Herc again in a second encounter, Herc is already stronger in second encounter than 1st encounter.
And that even assume your attacks that hurt Herc are all A rank and above.
THe resistance stack. The heart pierce already less effective for the second time. Soon it will not be effective to even nick his heart. Much less kill him.But not immune. Getting pierce in the heart is all the same. You die. Same way 12 times. It's possible for Cu Chulainn.
What you feel is wrong.It's resistance. It's just how I feel about it.
Last edited by castor212; June 15th, 2018 at 06:17 AM.
Herc lives doesnt regen. The wiki source it to fate route, day 11, intermission scene dawn in the ruins. It says it takes Herc 3 days to fully heal from fatal wounds, not lives.
See, another cherry picking. Some says it's resistant after death, some says he gains resistance instantly. And I use the word nick to drive home a point. The point is that a cut, even with resistance can still cut. Herc can still die by swordsmanship.
What's GO mats?
I actually favour Cu Chulainn in this match up. He's efficient with mana, he's a survivor. He defends well. He's quick. With the curse, he can poke and run away.
What's EX? I just think UBW must have at least 12 NP. The Broken NP will bring the rank back up. He can just project 12 identical Broken NP anyway. He could have won, I still maintain.All his projections suffer a rank down, you have to remember, and he can't make any EXs. He is much more limited in >B rank attacks than you think.
Archer, on the other hand, has to:
- take time to fill up a weapon with magical energy
- find a relatively open area inside of a building
- get far enough away from Herc (who is chasing him, and is faster than him) to be outside of the resulting blast radius
- continue doing this repeatedly
- not use up all his magical energy and kill himself in the process
- do all of that while not being hit by the legendary hero who is much faster and more agile than him because one solid blow is all it takes to turn him into mush
Also Herc really doesn't. He can eat a BP to the face, he just has to avoid it if he wants to maintain his full stock of lives. Obviously he would want to do that, but even while maddened he is no fool and he can sacrifice a life to save the other 11.
Theoretically, if it were a really serious cut, I suppose. But that would take a cut well outside of the capabilities of Emiya, who is neither that strong nor that skilled. He also might get more resistance with each cut, I don't know if it has been stated to be a one-time thing or he keeps getting more and more resistant.A cut from a sword is still a cut. Even with resistance, Herc can still die by it.
The thing is though that "I just feel like" is not an argument, especially not when you are debating against actual facts and statements from the work itself. Literally every sign points towards the heart being protected, including a statement from Nasu that all but confirms it outright. The only counter you have to abundant evidence against you is "I have a gut feeling".I just feel like his heart is not A rank protected, only his skin and Gae Bolg circumvents the skin or even violates it. Just how I feel about it. But at least he can use runes so just agree to disagree.
Enough that Saber could have definitely won the war under a strong Master. I don't think there is a specific number given but I would assume she could knock off all twelve with a full power Excaliblast. King Arthur is on par with Heracles for a reason.Cool. Didnt know that. It's resistance, not immune. So how many can Excalibur take from Herc?
he does. A Q&A confirmed it.
It's not like you can nick a Servant to death anyway lol"DamnI know I destroyed his throat, but he's persistent. It doesn't seem like it's healed, so he must be drugged
"
The enemy glides across the water like a spider, and Lancer pursues him.
In contrast, water sprays from his footsteps, but his speed is far greater.
"…Hmph. If I'd known the pain wouldn't stop him, I would've cut his joints. I put that off since it doesn't work on other opponents, but
It is fatal for a human body to be cut at the joint, where the main arteries lie.
If the arteries are severed, death from severe bleeding will quickly follow.
But that is only in normal combat.
You cannot expect a Servant, a heroic spirit, to die from excessive bleeding.
As their lifeforce is magical energy, cutting their arteries does not have much effect.
The loss of a limb is another story, but cutting off a Servant's limb is a difficult task.
Doing so will likely cost you your own head in the process.
Non-fatal damage can be healed within minutes, but the damage from multiple lives being taken, such as in the battle against Archer, requires three days to heal.[5] He is able to take each continuous assault from Gilgamesh, regenerate, and continue to move forward while his lives drain away.[14]
from the same wiki, unless you're doing some real weird stuff
also dont use the wiki, really
It does.
Also the wiki is wrongQ: Berserker took no damage from Archer's A-rank Noble Phantasm "Broken Phantasm" (Caladbolg), is it ineffective due to Berserk's Noble Phantasm, or was he simply able to withstand it naturally? <Not Mr. Shanoa>
Nasu: Oh, that. In the original work it was like "Even though up until then none of the attacks had been worth dodging, this one would have been fatal, so Berserker counters → the resulting explosion from the Noble Phantasm is devastating." Yet in the anime version it was handled as "Berserker could not respond to it due to a severe injury from Saber → losing one of his lives, and regenerates," which may be something to think about. In all he lost 2 lives because of it.
Takeuchi: Oh, so that's why God Hand in the anime version needed 3 days to recover!
Restoring the wounds takes matters of minutes.
Restoring everything, including his whole lives, requires days.
THis is inline with the anime material Q&A that said it took days to recover lost lives.
And the anime also downright said that Herc's lives is recoverable.
I dont care about cherry picking done by others.See, another cherry picking. Some says it's resistant after death, some says he gains resistance instantly.
WHat I do is stick to what the material and interview said.Nasu: You don't have to die. For example... if you were to take fire damage, once you recover you would gain +100 resistance to fire.
A cut when resisted with a resistance against cut becomes a not cut.And I use the word nick to drive home a point. The point is that a cut, even with resistance can still cut. Herc can still die by swordsmanship.
Herc cant die by swordsmanship because there's only so much a swordsmanship can do before Herc's resistance is high enough to completely resist it.
Nasu said that
It may not be a negation, but resist up is enough to make it not work to begin with.
Fate Grand Order material, which only repeats what the VN already said, which is that Herc's whole body is his NP, not just his skins.What's GO mats?
Last edited by castor212; June 15th, 2018 at 06:34 AM.
Yes, they do. It's word of god, Illya's magical capacity is so unfairly big that God Hand can actually regenerate lives.
Herc lives do regen. Don't trust the wiki. It is explained in the anime iirc.
It is after he regens, regardless of death. Saying it was after he revives was my bad. "Once you recover you would gain +100 resistance" is the statement.See, another cherry picking. Some says it's resistant after death, some says he gains resistance instantly.
Until he has enough resistance that the cutting attack won't even break his skin anymore and just bounces off. Which, in most cases, will be as soon as you try to make the second hit.And I use the word nick to drive home a point. The point is that a cut, even with resistance can still cut. Herc can still die by swordsmanship.
You favor the person explicitly said to have terrible odds.I actually favour Cu Chulainn in this match up. He's efficient with mana, he's a survivor. He defends well. He's quick. With the curse, he can poke and run away.
EX is the rank above A. UBW has plenty of NPs, but because of the rank drop they will almost all be B or lower. They can be broken to get the rank back, like with Caladbolg II, but that is not an instantaneous process. And if he projects 12 identical NPs and does the exact same attack with all of them, by the end Herc will absolutely just walk through them unharmed.What's EX? I just think UBW must have at least 12 NP. The Broken NP will bring the rank back up. He can just project 12 identical Broken NP anyway. He could have won, I still maintain.
Last edited by Clockehwork; June 15th, 2018 at 06:30 AM.
Nasu saidI actually favour Cu Chulainn in this match up. He's efficient with mana, he's a survivor. He defends well. He's quick. With the curse, he can poke and run away.
Why would you favour a guy said to be very disadvantaged by the author him/herselfLancer can use his runes and Noble Phantasm together to temporarily raise the rank to A, but it'd still be a very disadvantageous fight but "one with some chances".
I've never been 100% sure Herc can adapt to Gae Bolg with rune rank upbecause God Hand gives extra resistance while Gae Bolg always adjusts power above the opponents resistance, but for an actual fight it doesn't matter because Cu can't use Gae Bolg 12 times.
Actually, if it were just his skin it could go through his mouth to the heart.
Be awkward as fuck for Cu tho.
I just feels like the curse circumvents the skin. Remember it zig zags on Saber. I like to think it pierces the skin beco the law requires it. But it can enter thru the mouth. If the whole body is resistant, well then the lance just pierce it as required by the curse. Its just how I like to imagine it, ok? It's ok to disagree, ok?
Yea, I got confused by the intermission scene with Herc's broken body. Saber didnt cut Herc. He blocked it. And he was rooted on the ground but was pushed back by Saber, alright? Saber cant move him an inch? No, I disagree. It was Rin that shredded his arm.
You cant say Herc will get resistance until the weapon has close to nil effect. You're basically saying resistance becomes immunity. As long as you have the mana to surge thru, you can kill Herc with swordsmanship. A swing is still a swing. Clearly when Nasu said Herc can still be damaged by fire, he's giving us a chance. No amount of resistance should reach immunity level.
There's a lot of cherry picking Herc's immunity. He shouldnt be gaining resistance until he's dead. And Herc cant regen lives. The wiki is wrong. Herc lost to Archer in swordsmanship. He most probably lose to Saber in swordsmanship. So to me, it doesnt matter he gains resistance. They can kill him.
It's not a disagreement you're just fucking wrong
It does pierce the skin because the causality reversal requires it, but God Hand is a superior curse to Gae Bolg and would stop it.
I know, it's just what I feel, alright? It makes me happy. I put the Archer Herc match up inside UBW. Archer can trace weapons instantly, faster than Gil in UBW. It's a flat surface. Just backpedal while spamming NP. If Herc eats one to the face, then he stops for a bit. Unless you're thinking as an arm coming down. Archer can work it out. They all can work it out, but it should be advantage to Archer, but he has to die for the story.
I mean, if you're going to stick to your headcanon even when everyone tells you you're wrong, then why start this discussion?
this also doesnt happen. Rin had to uses a bunch of jewel to amass enough power to blow Herc's head, not his arms, and even then Herc still did not let go.Yea, I got confused by the intermission scene with Herc's broken body. Saber didnt cut Herc. He blocked it. And he was rooted on the ground but was pushed back by Saber, alright? Saber cant move him an inch? No, I disagree. It was Rin that shredded his arm.
He did not get pushed by Saber. It was Saber that got pushed from the ferocity of Herc's attacks.
I can because thats what Nasu said.You cant say Herc will get resistance until the weapon has close to nil effect.
Its not complete negation, but it wont work.
I only repeat what the author has to say about it.
A swing when resisted becomes a swing that does no damage.A swing is still a swing.
He never said that.Clearly when Nasu said Herc can still be damaged by fire
In fact, on the very same Q&A he said that resistance makes attacks that it resisted becomes ineffective (効かなくなる)
So yeah, the resistance, for all sense and purpose, is the same in effect as immunity. It's just the mechanism thats different.
Its not cherry picking if its backd up by official material.There's a lot of cherry picking Herc's immunity. He shouldnt be gaining resistance until he's dead. And Herc cant regen lives. The wiki is wrong. Herc lost to Archer in swordsmanship. He most probably lose to Saber in swordsmanship.
Nothing ever said he gained resistance only after dead. THe materials downright said its resist up after taking damage.
Herc can regen lives. THe materials and anime downright said he can.
Launching your sword ala projectile is not swordsmanship.
Saber does have the high level technique in swordsmanship. But physical parameter is a thing.
I mean ok, you can think that, but you're factually wrong. Just saying.So to me, it doesnt matter he gains resistance. They can kill him.
Last edited by castor212; June 15th, 2018 at 06:58 AM.
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