Badass Versus Thread

[Ronove]

I thought Gram competed against Caliburn?
Also, it's not just a matter of being older, it's that Gram was specifically the ancestor of Caliburn as a "sword of selection". I'd say Balmung might be fine when it comes to clases of mystery with Gram, especially since Sigurd and Siegfried are two entirely different characters in the Nasuverse.

Gram never touched Caliburn, it was Merodach. The scene is written confusingly, but Gilgamesh switched to Merodach at some point

A cursed holy blade which had accomplished the feat of dragon slaying.
It also possesses the attributes of its origin, the demonic blade Gram, and will change attributes between holy sword and demonic sword depending on who wields it. The blue jewel of the hilt stores and preserves magic energy (true Ether) from the age of gods, and upon releasing it, emanates a twilight aura. Those with the blood of dragons take additional damage.

Is what Apo mats say, making Gram the origin of Balmung. If one was going to win in a clash, it'd be the former.

[AAM1232]

So overall there's not much Siegfried can do against Sigurd?

[Zurvan]

He can chop his head off?

I think if anything they're pretty even?

[LJ3]

Sigurd vs Karna

[Ronove]

So overall there's not much Siegfried can do against Sigurd?

Sounds like they're about the same? Though Sigurd might have more to show in his mats.

Problem is that Sigurd might be a bad matchup for Siegfried in a direct clash of NPs.

[Zurvan]

^^I'll give this to Karna precisely because Sigurd doesnt have good armor like Siegfried

90% redux is hax

[Ronove]

Definitely Karna.

[Altaris]

Karna would turn Sigurd into pincushion in melee. No AoF is big loss

[Ronove]

I'd argue Sigurd's a better fighter than Siegfried though. At least from the parameters and style.

Plus Rune magic as we've seen is fairly overpowered.

[Altaris]

Doesn't matter when you have no way to bypass Karna's armor and no way to tank all his nuclear tools either

[AAM1232]

Ah, forgot that Sigurd doesn't have AoF. So Sig vs Sieg is pretty even, and NP clash is won by Sigurd, is how the fight would play out most of the time?

[Ronove]

Doesn't matter when you have no way to bypass Karna's armor

Siegfried was denting Karna's armor with just B+ STR, Sigurd has A+. Runes that Lancer Cu has can give him chances to boost GB enough to defeat Herc, despite God Hand.

no way to tank all his nuclear tools either

Chuck Gram at it?

Karna will win either way, but it's not like it's a stomp just because Sigurd doesn't have armor. Siegfried has a much better defense, but Sigurd sounds like he has more potential and versatility.

[Zurvan]

Siegfried was denting Karna's armor with just B+ STR, Sigurd has A+. Runes that Lancer Cu has can give him chances to boost GB enough to defeat Herc, despite God Hand

Congrats, you now do 10 damage as opposed to Sieg's 8... And God Hand works completely different from Karna's armor

[Ronove]

Congrats, you now do 10 damage as opposed to Sieg's 8... And God Hand works completely different from Karna's armor

Herc has A rank END and A rank BC without factoring God Hand. The power needed to kill him once would require a strong NP. Killing most if not all his lives would need something ridiculous like Excalibur. Doubt that's something Kavacha can tank. Of course that's just Cu with a small chance and this is just hypothetical anyway of what Sigurd might be capable of with Runes.

[Altaris]

Siegfried was denting Karna's armor with just B+ STR, Sigurd has A+. Runes that Lancer Cu has can give him chances to boost GB enough to defeat Herc, despite God Hand.

Chuck Gram at it?

Karna will win either way, but it's not like it's a stomp just because Sigurd doesn't have armor. Siegfried has a much better defense, but Sigurd sounds like he has more potential and versatility.

"Denting" as in dealing some scratches that heal in less a moment.

Reminder that Sieg was doing basically no damage at all against Karna despite spamming Balmung like no tomorrow

Doubt that's something Kavacha can tank

He tanked Leo's Gawain Galatine without his armor. He tanked multiples Balmung without taking any damage.

[Zurvan]

The reason why Cu's runes matter with God Hand is because it allows him to use his NP with effect, since without it its useless, Karna's armor reduces incoming damage by 90% regardless of rank, so throwing any attack of below A is useless against Herk, while throwing any attack from A and up (and down to but eh) is reduced against Karna.

Karna tanks big hits better than Herk does if anything

[Altaris]

It's not like Karna is sitting still for Sigurd to test his runes / sword on him until it works either. Without AoF, Karna would puncture him hard, not to mention all the ranged options with Brahmastra and Brahmastra Kundala

Sieg and Siegfried only lasted so long because they have AoF. Karna has no problem landing hits onto Siegfried, and Sigurd's flying daggers are not Kaziklu Bei in term of numbers. In Sieg's case, both AoF and the capability to spam Balmung.

[BK201]

The reason why Cu's runes matter with God Hand is because it allows him to use his NP with effect, since without it its useless, Karna's armor reduces incoming damage by 90% regardless of rank, so throwing any attack of below A is useless against Herk, while any attack from A and up (and down to but eh) is reduced.

Karna tanks big hits better than Herk does if anything

A rank and above deals full damage against God hand, not reduced.

[Zurvan]

In their first encounter the only thing that saved Siegfried was his armor
Sigurd doesn't have that, and would get defeated in normal combat, no spear NP needed

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A rank and above deals full damage against God hand, not reduced.

Oops, my mistake, thats karna's
will fix

[You]

Gram never touched Caliburn, it was Merodach. The scene is written confusingly, but Gilgamesh switched to Merodach at some point

Gil pulls out a sword that's the prototype of Caliburn.
Shirou says that it's Gram, the prototype of Caliburn.
Gil says nah brah, this the prototype of that, the sword that selects the king, Merodach.

So basically Merodach got passed down or something and became Gram. And probably when it broke Sigurd fixed it up and now it looks like it does in GO

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actually got it wrong

"Wha"
That… is a familiar sword.
The ornamentation on it is different.
But its true nature, the idea of its creation, and its soul are too close to those of this sword

"It can't bethis sword's model…"

"It is. But its strength as a Noble Phantasm is incomparable.
What you have, 'the sword in the stone', originated from the legend of 'the sword of supremacy in the tree' from Northern EuropeBut this is the original model, the foundation of the sacred right to select the king."

The sword of supremacy in the tree Gram, the demonic sword of Sigmund, hero of northern Europe its original model…?

Gil says, "the original for Caliburn is Gram. What I have is Merodach, the original of Gram.
It's weird because the sttatus screen shows Merodach as Gram.