Badass Versus Thread

[Mcjon01]

Royal We is warewa. And it makes no sense for her to use it at that point in the first place lol.

Spoiler:

"Because we (refers to the ancient gods) lost to that titan before. This body knew that us alone (Hakuno and her alone) is no match for it." And then they just beat it anyways so it's more of her being paranoid and lack confidence than anything. Heck if we assume that big fox lost to the titan back then despite having superior powerlvl, chance that she saw the titan be like MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA to her attacks and thought oh shit I can't hurt it ok I'm out b4 even trying to do anything else. Or if we go by a conspiracy theory I've seen b4, maybe she was the first to fight the titan and accidentally buffed it to max stage with her attacks and that fucked the other gods over. Regardless, we don't know the details atm.

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I think "nation building" is referring to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuniumi
That's Japan's version of the Enuma Elish rather than the act of actually build a country. So I think all creator myth authorities is gonna be grouped into this as well regardless of the scale.

If I place the part of my body that has grown too much, and plug the part of your body not yet grown, we will procreate lands and dominions. What say you to this?

Found my new go-to line

[Deathhappens]

Well, alright then.

EDIT:What about watakushitachi, did I dream up that one too?

[Altaris]

It's completely different to "ware wa"

Tamamo distinctively does not speak like royal. She speaks like a high class concubine, mix with some 3rd person and modern weeb's interpretation of riajuu waifuism

[Arashi_Leonhart]

What about watakushitachi, did I dream up that one too?

lol that's a polite we, has nothing to do with royal, and honestly you're going to be super surprised when you find out how little any character in Japanese actually says "I" pronouns at all

[Altaris]

Sometimes I do wonder how Chiwa Saito speaks all those Mikon~ speech so fast without biting her tongue

[Arashi_Leonhart]

She has a lot of practice with absurdist dialogue from Monogatari.

[Deathhappens]

lol that's a polite we, has nothing to do with royal, and honestly you're going to be super surprised when you find out how little any character in Japanese actually says "I" pronouns at all

I know that.

[Wandering Swordwoman]

Martha vs Musashi in boxing

[Deathhappens]

Depends on who loses by DQ first, as I'm reasonably sure neither of them know how to box by modern rules.

[Wandering Swordwoman]

No rules. Both just punch each other

[8000]

Goes like Li vs Beowulf.

[SpoonyViking]

Is Musashi also good at fighting barehanded?

[fire_mountain_30]

C- those werent actual supernovas. they were miniatures made of souls and when it was set off in the real world in kkk, it didnt do a thing.

actually, allow me to elaborate ona couple of things.

you keep bringing up the supernova, but in the marie route, the exact same attack that was used to stop it didnt do any noteworthy damage to the city ren and reinhard were fighting in and their physical attacks, that could kill each other and did at the end of the Marie route only did send strong gusts rolling across the city, kind of like Alkeides' arrows. and in the 9 or so fights between Hadou level guys in KKK, in japan, were only mountain level or so at best, yet the KKK cast went go the throne dimension, without getting stronger, and started doing feats of far greater magnitude, even though in the japan fights, they almost killed themselves from effort.

here is a rather accurate comparisson. imagine the EXTELLA LINK setting where the moon cell is projecting astral bodies and planets everywhere as a background. if the servants started busting those, while you knowing their limits in the real world, would you A- believe that thd mooncell is using exagerated imagery in its portrayal or buffing them up or B- would you believe that servants are actual planet busters? (sidenote, do you believe that gold saints are galaxy busters despite them having never achieved country level destruction inside their planet?).

and the author published the stats for each of the 4 gods across all 4 routes. Marie was Mercurius level since before the story proper even started, up until the very end and she performs partial emanations in the sakurai route and displays the cosmic awareness that is trademark for hadou gods several times. (and yet, she can get injured really easily by so much as a punch or a slap). that is one of the reasons Mercurius chose her. he even mentions this when he explains ghosts and what they are, when he says "-my law is not that weak", to highlight how she has enough power to break his law and in KKK, you see multiple weaker gods be powerless against a stronger law, at least once, but probably twice.

and the "ad populum" thing i mentioned is because of how their abilities mesh together in terms of compatibility. schreiber hard counters Ren by always being faster and Dantes hard counters Ren by moving outside of the bounds of time and its restrictions, which is what Ren controls (said arguments only concerned briah level Ren though)

[fire_mountain_30]

No, anti-X here means they are "to be used on X", not "when I use this anti-X, then X should be destroyed". And it's not even strange for something of anti-X failed to beat X, did you not see how Kingu died by Tiamat? Just because you have this tag doesn't mean you always achieve your purpose against a target beyond you.

Does Tiamat even have divinity? isnt falling from godhood to beasthood supposed to wipe out your divinity?

and considering that according to kingu chaos tide = grail mud and just a small exposure to it wiped out Herakles' divinity, why would Tiamat whose entire body is made from it have any?

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Classification is different from range ever since the beginning, this is elementary.

true, but the range makes it impossible to reconcile it with classification sometimes (if they were in meters)

but since we dont know the units, ok then.

however, Caladbolg is anti-army (i think) and it destroyed a floating island that the chinese loli czlled a country, so Brahmastra Kundala doing something on that level is something i could easily expect

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Well that's because the flames are from one of the Church's greatest conceptual weapons
The history denial only applies to NPs that are being used by Shirous

*heavy breathing*

please elaborate on this

[Ronove]

A- not giving yiu a measure for speed is kind of the point. being beyond space time puts you outside of the normally understood notions of what speed even is. it outright means regular logic doesnt apply to your movements.

No , I mean it's meaningless fluff that can't be applied sensibly. Existing outside the confines of space time is about as relevant as characters said to punch through space time . It doesn't mean your strength or speed is infinite, it's fictional babble.

B- damaging his saint graph doesnt mean he wont be able to fight for a long period of time, just that he will give out eventually. Achilles can go SoL while on his chariot with no repercussions and regular servants can fight on a nebulous " close to SoL" on foot.

Said absolutely nowhere. Melt is a cheat servant composed of divinities and breaking her saint graph crippled her for a good portion of CCC event. Not to mention this was just moving at Lightspeed where according to you, Dantes would be able to travel at some hypothetical speed far faster than that. Why wouldn't he drop dead on the spot?

C- those werent actual supernovas. they were miniatures made of souls and when it was set off in the real world in kkk, it didnt do a thing. the grand cross is a disconect between text and context because the entire story hammers in time and time again that it is a single universe that loops in on itself. the guy that killed him in kkk was mountain level and did it with a regular sword.

They were actually supernovas because Mercurius controls every celestial body in the universe (which is actually a multiverse) in Dies Irae.

Spoiler:

Play the game and it's stated repeatedly, time and again in that fight. There is no way you could have missed it. KKK Mercurius is not even him, it's a shadow/replica/record from the throne Hajun is using since the actual snake has been dead for thousands of years. Why the hell do you keep referring to the untranslated sequel when the actual installment (which came after KKK) says nothing of the sort?

And wow that's wrong. World of foreknowledge is not a single universe but an entire multiverse spanning infinitely. This is Mercurius' claim to fame when he became a hadou god. This is again, something told to us in the story, but since you like to bring up KKK, it's said there too.

“In a word, he who was already in the Divine Throne perceives himself that way that he arrived to there. The mechanism of the Throne that encompassed single time and single universe until now, it was he who destroyed and rewrote it.”
“The inclusion of the past, present and future and the simultaneous seizure of multitudes of parallel universes. This man who achieved it, can only be affirmed as progenitor of resurrection who acquired the largest dominant territory that exceeds the three previous generations.”

“Simply put, for the Third Throne, this man was none other than a monster that hailed from another time axis and another universe.”

“The creation of his universe by the replacement of cause and result, becomes the greatest mystery among all successive Thrones.”

“He, who became the Shinza, turned into a wanderer for many months and years while he was tormented by the Déjà Vu feeling of the unknown origin… The fierce love he embraces toward the woman he met at the end of that journey.”

“I want her to end my life. In that moment, give me the most supreme of all unknown.”

“His earnest craving is that of single point. Moreover, for that to active is the moment he himself in the Shinza was destroyed by the Self-Destruction Factor.”

“That meaning is incomprehensible. That reason is unacceptable. He, who is a God, ascending to a God as he emanates on the verge of his death, logic like that should have failed already as far as anyone can see.”

“Yet, he was someone who can make such thing possible. As the one who extends his grasp on multitime, multiverse and all territories/domains, he can establish such absurdity.”

Lastly even outside of Dies Irae. Senshinkan has Kuubou who was causing Earthquakes around multiverse just by waking up, in a weakened state, and he's compared to KKK Machina by word of god.

D - "What can Dantes do that would even get him to notice?" well, considering how Ren at his strongest is on Marie's level and a single bitchslap and stabbing got her attention quite well, i would say that dantes doesnt have to do much. even machina with his punches that were compared to bombardments could hurt Ren through the protection of his law in the Marie route, no problem.

Can you like...just not make bold claims without understanding the context of the feats? Marie is a weakling for most of DI because she has no offensive capability. The series hammers in that strength isn't just your power level, but what your power represents. Marie is a moeblob without a shred of killing intent or inclination to combat, or even an ego, so she's weak. A nerfed Eleonore (who said exactly what I just did) touched her but didn't die Yet Mercurius, the strongest character by far, would be killed instantly because his desire is to be killed by her.

Adding onto this? WoG confirmed that Marie is equal to Reinhard and the entirety of his legion.

E - Ren loses the power to have that insane speed in Aztliuth, hence why i previously mentioned that he got killed by a massively hypersonic dude. he either gets "za warudo" and lackluster speed, or he gets FTL movements with partial time slowdown withiut Aztliuth. he doesnt get both

Proof for this. Finale is far weaker than his Atziluth yet he is still able to command time stop and achieve light speed. Atziluth is that but on steroids. At this point in time, your words reek of someone who just reads wiki and summaries whenever you feel like without grasping the meaning or context behind it. For every claim you make, I want the source.

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actually, allow me to elaborate ona couple of things.

you keep bringing up the supernova, but in the marie route, the exact same attack that was used to stop it didnt do any noteworthy damage to the city ren and reinhard were fighting in and their physical attacks, that could kill each other and did at the end of the Marie route only did send strong gusts rolling across the city, kind of like Alkeides' arrows.

Uh huh. Now here's the part you 'remember' that Marie route Ren Reinhard and Marie are fodder compared to their versions in Rea's route, because the circumstances led to them getting huge jumps in power.

That's problem 1. The second is that you don't even realize that these guys didn't fully emanate until Ren and Reinhard pierced a hole through the world and appeared in beach where Marie stayed.

yet the KKK cast went go the throne dimension, without getting stronger, and started doing feats of far greater magnitude, even though in the japan fights, they almost killed themselves from effort.

I have not played KKK, and dont know the context. Dies Irae however, is very clear about feats and leaves nothing to ambiguity. I also significantly doubt how reliable your words is sooo...unless you can provide context, I'm ignoring it.

[Zurvan]

Is Musashi also good at fighting barehanded?

I don't think she has any barehanded fighting feats
and being good with a sword =/= being good in a fistfight, so I'll bet on Martha

[Lily Emilio]

Does Tiamat even have divinity? isnt falling from godhood to beasthood supposed to wipe out your divinity?

She has Divinity even during the final fight. And turning Beast doesn't make you lose any. You just get classified as a Beast class and gain some cool shits.

and considering that according to kingu chaos tide = grail mud and just a small exposure to it wiped out Herakles' divinity, why would Tiamat whose entire body is made from it have any?

Because she is a goddess while Herc isn't. Her mud can even give birth to gods cuz it's the primordial sea of life, it's different from your normal grail mud obviously. And why would her own mud harm her and cause her to lose divinity in the first place, sounds extremely dumb.

[Ronove]

Goetia said chaos tide and Manjew mud are similar but we dont really know the relationship between the two though right? Tiamat's was more versatile for example.

[Iceblade44]

Goetia said chaos tide and Manjew mud are similar but we dont really know the relationship between the two though right? Tiamat's was more versatile for example.

For one thing Angra's was stated to be like a killing weapon why Tiamats is a birthing pit which has a side effect of killing you. How much difference is unknown since Angra never finished his incarnation

[You]

Goetia said chaos tide and Manjew mud are similar but we dont really know the relationship between the two though right? Tiamat's was more versatile for example.

probably just both giant clusters of magical energy that you can call holy grail stuff