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Thread: Badass Versus Thread

  1. #118541
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyton View Post
    Any idea where Holy Beasts rank among the Phantasmal Species ranking, or are they still a vague classification in the Nasuverse?
    Holy Beast = Divine Beast
    They're the same thing
    like here 怪物 is monster but they also use 魔物 for monster too in some skills.
    Quote Originally Posted by Canon View Post
    On You's tombstone it will read
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    That's exaggerating my point.

  2. #118542
    Εις οιωνός άριστος, αμύνεσθαι περί πάτρις Deathhappens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    Okay first things first.
    For Phantasmal Species the ranking goes
    Monstrous Beast < Phantasmal Beast < Divine Beast

    What downgrades your Divinity is if you are a Monster, different kanji to Monstrous Beast which is just a sub-classification of Phantasmal Species.


    Can you be a Monster and a Monstrous Beast? Yes.
    Can you be one and not the other? Yes.

    So Tiamat is a Monster sure but that body is the body of a God. So it's still got Divinity.
    Not the stat sheet Divinity that says "Aptitude as a Divine Spirit." But still divine.
    On a different note, poor Pegasus is "only" exceedingly close to being a Phantasmal. Meanwhile Saint Martha summmons a full Dragon like it ain't no thing and now Jeanne can apparently whiste up a Divine Beast (also, Ishtar and Gugulanna, but at least Ishtar was a full goddess).

    Something something FGO powercreep something something
    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    It's like with centaur girls, you're fucking a horse. Sure the human part is the one that moans but your dick is in the horse, no way around it.
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    boytoy angst > fulfilling life of misanthropic extremist environmentalism
    Once and always and nevermore.

  3. #118543
    Bitchin' Arashi_Leonhart's Avatar
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    I dunno how "creature that is normally in the lowest tier gets bumped up to mid tier but obviously there are regular old mid and high tier creatures out there" is powercreeped, like, they spell it out for you.

  4. #118544
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    On a different note, poor Pegasus is "only" exceedingly close to being a Phantasmal. Meanwhile Saint Martha summmons a full Dragon like it ain't no thing and now Jeanne can apparently whiste up a Divine Beast (also, Ishtar and Gugulanna, but at least Ishtar was a full goddess).

    Something something FGO powercreep something something
    It's phantasmal beast rank
    its not moby dick see my post in story and lore about higashide and his love of B grade movies making it into GO
    Quote Originally Posted by Canon View Post
    On You's tombstone it will read
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    That's exaggerating my point.

  5. #118545
    Εις οιωνός άριστος, αμύνεσθαι περί πάτρις Deathhappens's Avatar
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    I mean, it's anywhere between half-god and the scion of two gods. Why does it start at the lowest tier?

    Although I suppose the one that's powercreeped is Medusa herself.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's phantasmal beast rank
    its not moby dick see my post in story and lore
    I literally just read that, yup.
    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    It's like with centaur girls, you're fucking a horse. Sure the human part is the one that moans but your dick is in the horse, no way around it.
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    boytoy angst > fulfilling life of misanthropic extremist environmentalism
    Once and always and nevermore.

  6. #118546
    Napoleon vs Heracles in doing the impossible

  7. #118547
    まおーさまのカワイイツンデレ睡魔 Mizukume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    A - did you not read YOU's input on the topic? we are probably talking about two different types of Divinity.
    Yes I did, and he is talking about the same thing I did. Divinity as a skill (what you've been babbling about the entire time) is different from Divinity as a trait, but they are grouped into the same thing in FGO gameplay because both indicate your Divine status.

    Divinity as a skill indicates "how much of a divine spirit you are", and if you are a monster this might affect your rank as a Divine Spirit (but that did not happen to Tamamo, her Divinity is still A despite most of it already being sealed due to being a servant + self seal, her being considered an anti-hero Monster like Medusa didn't do shit to lower her rank). Divinity as a trait is "you are considered Divine". The chain of heaven works as long as you are considered "Divine", meaning it works on both types of Divinity.

    Just look at that list, even Lahmu being born from Tiamat is considered divine, as it is considered part of her body - the body of a God, a divine as fuck being. Bull of heaven, sphinx are divine beasts, Ereshkigal is goddess who can turn huge ghost form, Greater Grail is ??? and Mitsuhide Mara despite taking the demon king of the 6th heaven role is also divine. As long as you are divine you are targets of anti-divine NPs, not that you must have a skill that give you a rating of how high you might be as a divine spirit.
    Last edited by Mizukume; August 9th, 2018 at 09:54 PM.


    "ヴァレフォルちゃんはソロモンの魔神ですが、リリィ顔みたいですね?"
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  8. #118548
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    On a different note, poor Pegasus is "only" exceedingly close to being a Phantasmal. Meanwhile Saint Martha summmons a full Dragon like it ain't no thing and now Jeanne can apparently whiste up a Divine Beast (also, Ishtar and Gugulanna, but at least Ishtar was a full goddess).

    Something something FGO powercreep something something
    Iskander’s bulls are both divine beasts and the lightning they run on is Zeus so don’t go blaming FGO for the power creep
    Hell even before FSN came out, Nrvnqsr was spitting out dragons and crab gods so maybe the real lesson here is just that Medusa is shit

  9. #118549
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Does Enkidu`s NP in gameplay do bonus damage to divinity or something?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  10. #118550

  11. #118551
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Also, why did we use bounding NPs to compare to nuke NP?

    Why are we using completely different things to try to make a faulty argument, hu?

    Why are we lumping all NPs together hu?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, again, kingu did.his. job for a substantial ammount of time
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  12. #118552
    I don't think you understood the point Mizu was trying to make

    What he means is that if you use Anti-X on that designated X it doesn't mean you automatically win, nor does it means that it can affect the entire thing. it just means to be used against that specific things because either it has bonus against that or because it cannot be used against anything except that or whatever the reason.

    The Kingu example is good for that argument because Kingu is the anti-divine living Noble Phantasm of the God, but in the end he died to Tiamat.

    You were saying

    the designations are what they are meant to destroy. it would be pretty shitty if yiu were made to do something and yiu couldnt do it.

    Which was why he brought up Kingu vs Tiamat

    Because if it works like you were trying to argue, then either Kingu would had completely immobilized Tiamat for infinity, or he is pretty shitty

  13. #118553
    Bitchin' Arashi_Leonhart's Avatar
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    yeah the designations are what they are meant to target, not what they're meant to destroy, else man fuck those rice bales, don't go destroying my meals

  14. #118554
    吸血鬼 Vampire Bugs's Avatar
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    Ozy vs Sigurd, who is the most devoted husband

  15. #118555
    Ozy. He didn't make Nefertari cry

  16. #118556
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altaris View Post
    I don't think you understood the point Mizu was trying to make

    What he means is that if you use Anti-X on that designated X it doesn't mean you automatically win, nor does it means that it can affect the entire thing. it just means to be used against that specific things because either it has bonus against that or because it cannot be used against anything except that or whatever the reason.

    The Kingu example is good for that argument because Kingu is the anti-divine living Noble Phantasm of the God, but in the end he died to Tiamat.

    You were saying


    Which was why he brought up Kingu vs Tiamat

    Because if it works like you were trying to argue, then either Kingu would had completely immobilized Tiamat for infinity, or he is pretty shitty

    Kingu still held her for a long time and she had insane monstruous strenght

    And it is not a good example because I refferenced NPs that are designated for structures or landmasses and Mizu "countered", with an example where the target is a living being and an outlier to a bunch of things at that

    - - - Updated - - -

    A living thing can fight back. A rocky plain cant
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  17. #118557
    まおーさまのカワイイツンデレ睡魔 Mizukume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    Kingu still held her for a long time and she had insane monstruous strenght
    You still don't fucking get it. The fact that you think Kingu is not shit countered your very point about "if X is to anti Y and it can't do what it is supposed to do then it's shit". The Kingu example here is "when X which is to anti Y get used against a super outlier Y then X can still get fucked but you can't just call it shitty". It doesn't matter if it's a damaging NP or a binding NP, it is the same classification which you got it completely wrong and ppl been trying to correct you.
    And it is not a good example because I refferenced NPs that are designated for structures or landmasses and Mizu "countered", with an example where the target is a living being and an outlier to a bunch of things at that
    No. The entire focus of the discussion is the fucking Classification of the NPs and that shit means "this NP is to be used against a certain type of targets". The NP can be used to destroy the target like structures and landmasses shit you were saying, to bind the target like Kingu, to protect you from the target...etc, to do whatever the shit on the target it doesn't fucking matter because the classification of anti-X is just "yeah you should use this on X it works better than normal". Whatever you've been saying about the range and destruction shit are meaningless.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If you read this and still don't get it, read it again 100 more times until you get it, because I won't repeat this again or I will shit talk you like previously, something I don't want to.


    "ヴァレフォルちゃんはソロモンの魔神ですが、リリィ顔みたいですね?"
    "え?それは問題ない!Fateのアルトリア顔はより質悪い!"


  18. #118558
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    So you admit to using a nonsensical outlier example, got it.

    Use a more reliable example, something like, say, excalibur failing to destroy a specific fortified structure
    Last edited by fire_mountain_30; August 10th, 2018 at 05:41 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  19. #118559
    oh we're still doing this huh

  20. #118560
    まおーさまのカワイイツンデレ睡魔 Mizukume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    So you admit to using a nonsensical outlier example, got it
    No. A very sensible example to counter your nonsense logic, like I always do.


    "ヴァレフォルちゃんはソロモンの魔神ですが、リリィ顔みたいですね?"
    "え?それは問題ない!Fateのアルトリア顔はより質悪い!"


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