Badass Versus Thread

[SpoonyViking]

Did you Achilles pull out his shield in any of his cqc with his teacher? Kosmos is massive, how can you think of how that would look like in the type of close fight. If other people think it's possible okay but for me that just doesn't make anysense.

It's also extremely costly in terms of magical energy, if I recall it correctly, so Achilles probably wouldn't use it willy-nilly even if he were inclined to do so.

[Zurvan]

Why no for the first part? I don't see why the CS wouldn't be active. Looking over the wording of Kirei's CS he didn't say fight against 7 servants like that but everyone. It's just vague enough it could go one way or another, though it's not like we will ever get any confirmation for something that old.

It is only natural.
This is their second battle.
Lancer was under the Command Spell's bind.
To learn his enemies' strengths, his Master told Lancer,
"Fight against everyone. But do not defeat them. Survive your first battle against any opponent."
That is the only order he was given.
He has followed such an unreasonable command, and this is his first "battle without any binds".

I mean, it's possible I guess, but I read this as "the command spell holding lancer back is now gone"
and I'm not sure CS's once unbinded (as in the conditions were met) reemerge, but thats headcannon I guess. There's also the survive the first battle bit, and with it its possible Cu disengaged and would've met the CS's condition thus not be nerfed, but thats off screen so whatever

but mainly I don't see Gil taking half a day to kill a nerfed Cu

[Iceblade44]

mostly kanji different


light speed would be 光速
ozy's are 魔力光

and wher di you even get sigurd doing that

Holmes mangifiing lasers

[Mcjon01]

Holmes mangifiing lasers

Those aren't lasers they're the physical manifestation of his penetrating insight

[Zurvan]

just like Karna's eyebeam is the manifestation of his piercing gaze

which isn't lightspeed fyi

[castor212]

oh, that

thats also from already knowing holmes uses that sorts of long range attack in advance

thanks, megane

[fire_mountain_30]

Honey it's magic light beam. We went over this many times b4. Stop bullshitting headcanon.

A - magic light beam is still light if it has the correct background characteristics to prove that it is light. light magic in Magi the labyrinth of magic is a great example of that, for example

B - FZ already said tyat servants fight at speeds near that of light

C - even random police force mages can use magecraft to easily make light that is stated to be lightspeed, so i dont see why you would dismiss similar magic from much more powerful beings with more background justification. heck, touko easily made actual sunlight using a rune.

D - so you are literally saying that archimedes can shitstomp everyone. that is the end result of the argument you are making given that he can spam those beams as seen in link. so karl gets stomped, Gil gets stomped, artoria gets stomped, everyone gets stomped by thia random greek nerd because his attacks are that strong and that fast. ask yourself in good conscious if Nasu would give a random caster lightspeed attacks and make it so that all the high tier and big name characters in his series would be fodder by comparisson due to the inability to react to them

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Those aren't lasers they're the physical manifestation of his penetrating insight

so a magnifying glass does not magnify light?...ok

[Iceblade44]

Don't try applying physics into anime. It doesn't work. You are taking far to seriously then it's supposed to because again anime logic trumps real logic. Especially in the case of magic lightbeams.

[fire_mountain_30]

but anyway, back to the original question

outisde the mooncell, which is the strongest character that he can beat?

[Mcjon01]

https://what-if.xkcd.com/1/

The problem with your light speed Servants idea is that Servants have mass and so do most of the things they exist near

[Iceblade44]

but anyway, back to the original question

outisde the mooncell, which is the strongest character that he can beat?

That's to broad of a question really since Servants aren't like in a tiered list but have to varied abilities. That's at least how it looks to me.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

just like Karna's eyebeam is the manifestation of his piercing gaze

which isn't lightspeed fyi

Karna's eyebeam is a Brahmastra, learn your canon. Also, this is totally consistent with Hindu mythology. Arjuna could cast even cast astras with just a thought.

[castor212]

B - FZ already said tyat servants fight at speeds near that of light

?

FZ never said Servants figth near speed of light.

The most maximum speed canonically stated is 2-3x speed of sound
Which is still around 300000-1000000 times slower tham speed of light.

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Is this wiki being wiki again?

[Iceblade44]

?

FZ never said Servants figth near speed of light.

The most maximum speed canonically stated is 2-3x speed of sound
Which is still around 3000-10000 times slower tham speed of light.

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Is this wiki being wiki again?

I think he's basing that off a piece of prose in Zero. Probably in the first big fight. I think I remember a line like that. Of course reading it, i remember it being purple prose

[castor212]

Yeah but there arent any prose saying lightspeed in zero

[Zurvan]

Karna's eyebeam is a Brahmastra, learn your canon. Also, this is totally consistent with Hindu mythology. Arjuna could cast even cast astras with just a thought.

In the dictionary, Kinoko's saying that it's really a visualization of his intimidating stare.
But in the game, it looks like a beam to everyone else, so let's just call it a beam and ignore Kinoko.

this is from the Questions doc, you'd have to ask arai or anyone capable of knowing where it's from but like
"learn your canon"

I don't see how it can't be either anyway but who cares

[castor212]

I got yo back Zurvan

As far as Servant battles go there is no complaint about this admirable foe.

Towards the end of the first half, he confronts you as a boss, and brandishes overpowering flames. His attack from the sky “Brahmastra Kundala” is a bullshit attack which despite being nerfed from its former nuclear bomb tier power, still wreaks havoc with bombs falling from the sky during the time between attack rounds. Even Kinoko Nasu was killed by this attack when testing the game. Karna is seriously trying to kill you.

Beams also shoot from his eyes, but it’s actually just a visual representation of the power of his gaze. “Weapons are so boorish. Real heroes kill with their eyes…!” is an actual line of his. Unfortunately due to the limited amount of data that can be used for the game, the first half of this voice line just barely failed to meet the cut.

[Zurvan]

Jokes have always been top lore

remember this kids

[fire_mountain_30]

ok, so just to make sure people understand why i say the things that i say about those beams, there are really 2 main points:

A- i used to be in fictional debate groups and was there for a couple of years and saw all sorts of debates and things similar to what i am saying all the time, so i am aware of the standards required to prove it

B- i debated those scenes with friends that are also from those groups and we ofren disagree immensely on these matters, but we actually managed to come to a unanimous verdict on our deliberation in favour of those, so what i am saying has already been "proofread" so to speak.

so here are the usual standards:

Standards for laser determination


Most lasers in fiction are not real or provable as real. Often they are supernatural in nature and do not function anywhere close to how real light should. Therefore, lasers/light beams are only accepted as real if they meet, at a minimum, a few of these criteria:


The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or...

The beam reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror

The beam is called lightspeed by credible scientific sources

It is stated to be made of photons or light itself, again by a credible scientific source

It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera


Archi's beams bounce off mirrors, so they fulfill some of the conditions, which is enough

Holmes's originate from a scientific source, a magnifying glass and they dont even look like death beams, but rather as if a flashlight is being shone on something, so visually and from its origin, it fulfills the conditions

there is also anothrr standard which is about gods, the conceptual variety. basically it says that if god of thing A does thing A then it is legit thing A and weapons, blessing or artifacts which use thing A bestowed by said god on someone would be thing A for real if they produced it.

so if zeus throws a lightning bolt, it is lightning speed. if i use his bolts for myself, the same applies. if zeus gives lightning powers to a bald angry spartan, said angry spartan will be able to throw bolts at lightning speed.

Ozy's boat is the boat of Ra himself, so depending on how precise you want to be, it is either the same as firing beams from the sun itself or from an artifact that fulfills the above criteria.

stuff like excalibur or rhon dont fulfill the established VS community criteria, so i would never state that they are lightspeed.

so those things fulfills the criteria, whether the writers did it intentionally or not.

funny how no one has an issue with taking the word that Gil's bolts are lightning speed at face value but stuff like this or achilles being lightspeed in his chariot is a big no-no.

[Zurvan]

...is this a joke?