second best protag modifier. dont forget taiga brought ryougi up to significantly higher then saver level without even really trying.
second best protag modifier. dont forget taiga brought ryougi up to significantly higher then saver level without even really trying.
Originally Posted by Bird of Hermes
as a grand.
By that logic Gawain isn’t very strong either. That said it’s not like they won against Saver in power. The fight is pretty much convincing Saver that they should win in a way after all.Also Extra Vlad doesn't really seem too strong. I'd give Romania Vlad a shot at winning, but frankly, a Vlad who gets beaten by Tamamo, Nero and/or Emiya doesn't really have a chance against a dude who qualifies for a Grand position, even if that position is just the Assassin.
Um he’s got good solid stats, he’s got a solid NP that does damage and messes up people it’s compatible against and his skills are pretty good too. Disengage Batcon is weird but it’s a good skill either way. Military tactics is alright since his NP is anti-army.
anyway a instant death chance on a scratch is nice but I wouldn’t say it’s at all reliable and more of a lucky just maybeanyway a instant death chance on a scratch is nice but I wouldn’t say it’s at all reliable and more of a lucky just maybe thing.
King Hassan said his techniques hadn't decreased at all even after losing his grand status.
Technique isn't why Grands are busted though. It's their superior containers and magical energy that surpasses dragons and considered god-level. "Solomon" outright said the ranks between him and Mordred aren't so different, and the reason why he did so well is because of his grand abilities.
I'm talking about his assassination techniques. Why would grand buffs help him with skill-related qualities? He won't manhandle Gawain in CQC, but losing power won't stop him from Snaking into Ozy's territory and slicing his head off.
Would it? I mean you can't really extrapolate down from his Grand showings and say that not being a Grand here means nothing essentially in terms of his capabilities.
It does when he explicitly said his techniques(skill) aren't nerfed.
Unless you're telling me he was lying.King Hassan:
I accept.
From now on, my name and my sword - they have became joined with you in destiny.
Even though the Grand position was given up as a farewell gift to the primordial sea, my arts of assassination has not decreased in any way.
Master. The sword that announces death is yours to be used freely.
... I wish that you may wield it until the end of days.
His skills might not have degraded, but maybe he'd find it harder to pull those stunts without all that Grand juice boosting his parameters and stuff.
The same guy might have the same skills, but that doesn’t mean he will fight the same swimming in the ocean as he would on land. Not having grail mojo is going to weaken anybody
Again. What do parameters have to do with sneaking behind someone and cutting their heads off? That's assassination technique. If that has weakened then you are contradicting King Hassan's statement of his assassination prowess not having decreased.
I mean you're assuming grand power comes from straight Parameters too which would be an incredibly meh power up for how hyped up and what its suppose to be.
It's more of the heroic spirit, it's a bigger container. It's probably got a lot more hero power, a lot more spiritual power, a lot more oomph to everything and a lot more skills or who knows.
Well it sure isn't about skill. This is a really simple issue you're overbloating. There's power and there's abilities. King Hassan loses the former, not the latter by his own admission, at least where stealth is concerned. If King Hassan somehow becomes less stealthy by losing his title, that means his assassinations arts are weaker. He explicitly says that's not the case. How do you reconcile this when actually looking at the details instead of nebulously assuming he can't do anything as well as he could before?
I mean examples of different class containers for normal servants includes things like Cu getting a castle and a chariot and also the no sleep blessing when summoned in Ireland.
There’s plenty that could be lost that would be relevant. For all we know he also just gets a special grand bonus of X stuff gets plus correction or something like legendary actions in dnd terms. The fact you think that he doesn’t get any meaningful differences beyond he hits a bit weaker when degrading so much seems ridiculous to me
Well, putting the extra bonuses and powers from Grands aside, KH should still be possible to launch an attack with stealth. Most assassins have presence concealment after all. So, could KH's initial attack get him the advantage he needs to kill Vlad?
It’s his main path to victory. In a all out clash he isn’t really going to have much of an advantage and he doesn’t really have an answer to Vlad having an actual noble phantasm to invoke and use in combat.
I think there’s a fair chance Vlad doesn’t get nailed hard by a sneak attack but it’s possible. Presence concealment attacking doesn’t work out too well for assassins most of the time in the end against other servants.
Maybe? Battle Con might not save Vlad if the assassination works out perfectly (at best he'll be disadvantaged vs a relatively healthy opponent). Otherwise it's basically a duel, but Vlad has a better NP for dueling.
Frankly, unless the stakes have some conceptual fuckery, I doubt they'd win it for Vlad. Remember KH also has BC, and his version is way better: "even if he gets chopped in half, he'll carry on fighting as if he was in top condition".
Even then, he outclasses Extra Vlad, what with his Arms Mastery: Pretend To Be Shittier Than You Actually Are Version and his modus operandum of being the dude who assassinates the greatest assassin of the age with a gigantic sword and armour.
FGO Supports
okay but how many chaos emeralds does vlad have in possession.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
I feel like being an assassin counts as the sort of criminal that Vlad’s NP punishes so it should do a lot of damage.
If we're talking about objective measurements, King Hassan is lawful evil. If not, it's entirely possible that Vlad's own perception of his opponent is what triggers the bonuses (aren't morality debates fun). We can rule out corruption since King's whole existence is to be a counter to corruption, and he is disciplined. However........... "Perhaps due to its origin, it possesses the special characteristic of increasing the pain depending on the enemy's sins of depravity and immorality. Increases destructive power against target for purge; enemies who had comitted 'desertion', 'immorality', and 'violence'."
I'd say the founder of a religiously fanatical group centered around killing is violent. Also, if the modifier is based on how Vlad sees things, it would be even worse considering Hassan's a fanatic of the religion that invaded his homeland. Would it get through POF? Who knows. Lots of undefined things here.
Last edited by I Can't Believe It's Not A NoblePhantasm; February 9th, 2020 at 09:37 PM.
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