Badass Versus Thread

[BK201]

I mean, we know Karna and Siegfried smacked each other from night to morning and Karna was still fine to go on longer.

I doubt Achilles can sustain his chariot and shield for that long.

[Squirtodyle]

You also need to take into account Achilles' fame boost, according to volume 1 Vlad's boost is about the highest possible for a Servant and Achilles has fame comparable to him, which I'd assume means he'd be boosted up too.

[Altaris]

Yeah but Karna perform fine wherever he goes because his base as a Heroic Spirit is ridiculous

[Zurvan]

Makes you wonder what he'd be like in India

[Squirtodyle]

What I meant was that they were only sort of equal with Karna still kind of edging out ahead of him in Romania despite Achilles getting what's presumably close to the highest boost possible from fame according to volume 1's description of the boost Vlad got, and that if hypothetically they were placed in some sort of environment where neither got fame boosts Karna would probably be a little more clearly > Achilles

[eddyak]

Just like how he pulled out a anti-tiamat np and one shotted her right and then went on to pull out a anti-goetia np and one shotted him

You're comparing a too-big-for-his-boots vampire who had to go to somebody else to grant him his immortality to two literal gods. Pretty big difference between the two scenarios. One is a DAA, roughly equivalent to an average Servant. The other's one of the strongest beings humanity's ever had.

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Makes you wonder what he'd be like in India

He'd be breaking universes and shit, those superweapons they used to have were ridiculous.

[GundamFSN]

Makes you wonder what he'd be like in India

Bonker stats except Luck.

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Hopefully the doujin does him justice. Lol if he still jobs in Srivijaya. it's literally set in the country next to India where he'd get a high fame boost since Indian legend is supremely well known here and we have our roots from India.

[Iceblade44]

only if he go ham with flame burst

if he just play it slow and steady with his armor and spearwork, things are a-ok

I thought the reason why his flame burst was so mana inefficient was because he was spending too much mana maintaining his Armor?

[Ronove]

You also need to take into account Achilles' fame boost, according to volume 1 Vlad's boost is about the highest possible for a Servant and Achilles has fame comparable to him, which I'd assume means he'd be boosted up too.

Not by similar degrees.

Achilles is one of the most famous servants of all time like Heracles and as a result, any fame boost he'd receive wouldn't be comparably significant. Don't really know what to say about Karna but his moon cell version should be optimized. His parameters there are higher than Apo for End (C-A) and Luck (D-A+).

I put less stock in fame the stronger the servant's base is and the better their master. Rin as an example, can max Arturia even in Japan.

[Squirtodyle]

Karna in the Moon Cell lacks his armor though, which I'd assume is the reason his Endurance is higher like with how Cu lost ranks in Battle Continuation in exchange for higher Endurance or something like that. The only quote we have about Herc's fame is that he'd display excellent power in all of Western Europe, which I would take as an implication that he's not being boosted in Japan by as much as he would be elsewhere. If Achilles is equal in fame to Herc, then he'd presumably be boosted the same amount as Herc would in Western Europe. It's not possible to determine the exact degree of the boost, but it's still a fact that Achilles was getting some kind of boost while Karna was getting nothing.

[forumghost]

Karna in the Moon Cell lacks his armor though, which I'd assume is the reason his Endurance is higher like with how Cu lost ranks in Battle Continuation in exchange for higher Endurance or something like that. The only quote we have about Herc's fame is that he'd display excellent power in all of Western Europe, which I would take as an implication that he's not being boosted in Japan by as much as he would be elsewhere. If Achilles is equal in fame to Herc, then he'd presumably be boosted the same amount as Herc would in Western Europe. It's not possible to determine the exact degree of the boost, but it's still a fact that Achilles was getting some kind of boost while Karna was getting nothing.

Cu lost his BC for End because Rin hacked his Matrix, not because of anything else. Karna doesn't have his Armour because he gave it to his useless NEET Master.

[Squirtodyle]

I know, but considering Siegfried loses Magic Resistance because of his armor, and the previous thing with Cu being a trade-off for a defensive skill to his Endurance rank, it doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility for Karna not having his armor being the reason that his Endurance is A rank in the Moon Cell, especially since AFAIK in Apoc his stats don't change even after

Spoiler:

Amakusa becomes his Master and he's got near-infinite mana from the Grail.

[Ronove]

Karna in the Moon Cell lacks his armor though, which I'd assume is the reason his Endurance is higher like with how Cu lost ranks in Battle Continuation in exchange for higher Endurance or something like that. The only quote we have about Herc's fame is that he'd display excellent power in all of Western Europe, which I would take as an implication that he's not being boosted in Japan by as much as he would be elsewhere. If Achilles is equal in fame to Herc, then he'd presumably be boosted the same amount as Herc would in Western Europe. It's not possible to determine the exact degree of the boost, but it's still a fact that Achilles was getting some kind of boost while Karna was getting nothing.

The degree is important though because how that boost is applied determines whether or not it'll matter. If the bonus Achilles gets were to affect relatively needless parameters then nothing between him and Karna would change; their NPs are what make the difference. Kometes would still make Achilles the fastest servant, he wouldn't be able to reliably wound Karna with his Chariot (which doesn't have many feats in the first place, I'm assuming) so it wouldn't matter much if he had it or not and his Kosmos performed well against Karna's best even in the hands of a mediocre servant. And as said earlier, the capabilities of the master might be enough to cap the servant regardless.

We just don't know. Maybe when Achilles is summoned in GO.

[castor212]

I thought the reason why his flame burst was so mana inefficient was because he was spending too much mana maintaining his Armor?

checked the novel and it basically said if pranaburst is added to armor+spear = manahog

so he's definitely aok if only spear and armor, since he can pull an all nighter with Sieg l;ike that

[Tarlo Viola]

You're comparing a too-big-for-his-boots vampire who had to go to somebody else to grant him his immortality to two literal gods. Pretty big difference between the two scenarios. One is a DAA, roughly equivalent to an average Servant. The other's one of the strongest beings humanity's ever had.

Zepia DAA form is roughly an average servant, Tatari is literally "It's happen" with the summon of immortal full power guys from people's mind.
A good question is "tatari's manifestation is a reality Marble, can gil destroy RM with Ea, what happen to Wallachia?"

[eddyak]

Tatari isn't an RM, he's similar to one but not actually one.

And he has definite upper limits. He couldn't go past 30% Arc.

He wouldn't be able to get anywhere near the power of something Gil would be afraid of. That's if Gil even has something he's afraid of.

[Altaris]

Why are you guys all assuming they'll pull out their NP first hand ... They'll engage in melee first and foremost, which is a huge advantage for Karna because Achilles can't hurt him at all and 1 strike from Karna that hit Achilles can decide the duel because of how powerful it is. Achilles is fast but not an entire speed tier fast that he can dodge forever, especially since the LN state that Karna is only slightly slower than him when fighting Darnicula

[Squirtodyle]

Most Karna discussions tend to immediately go for Vasavi as if it's his first port of call for when he attacks for whatever reason. Achilles has a massive disadvantage in close combat and Karna's not stupid enough to abandon that advantage, so Achilles would need to break out NPs to try and get an upper hand, which means he ends up draining more mana than Karna does. Vasavi's an absolute last resort for him, and frankly he has the advantage over Achilles without needing to use it.

[Pretzelz]

Koyomi Muraragi-san (Kizu) vs Yumiduka Satsuki

I don't know, but money's on Koyomi given that fight with Episode. His regen is also more hax than what we've seen from Sacchin.

[Altaris]

It's also out of character for both Karna and Achilles to just pull out the big gun straight away. They both enjoy melee fights and there's no reason to use your trump card immediately unless your Master pull a Jinako or Gordes