Badass Versus Thread

[Lily Emilio]

so basically, there is no info to prove that the vault would give him something that Cu couldnt either dodge or block or counter.

got it

No not really. It has anti-divine weapons and the trishula, like ppl been saying the whole time but you seem to never get it. Trishula can smoke him so even if you dismiss the anti-divine weapons that nobody knows how those works atm, Trishula is enough and that is one proof.

[Iceblade44]

I still doubt that Rama can use Trishula as powerfully as Parvati. The big central part is A) that it doesn't make sense Rama would have a weapon in his armory that would be stronger then the Brahmastra he uses. Even if it was the case in myth as Rama is now it just wouldn't make sense since his Brahmastra clearly feels to be to be his trump card. And if it was weaker to other weapons then why is it seperate and not part of the armory then? I don't know it doesn't feel right Rama has a hidden away EX Rank NP when it's clearly presented that his A+ sword is his major thing. And B) The way Vishnu Bhuja is ranked also makes me doubtful. Normally when a NP is able to give you multiple NPs of varying power or it's ranked to reflect that by giving giving a sliding scale of it's strongest to it's lowest. While that doesn't mean it doesn't have something outside of those ranks, in the case of Rama it doesn't even have that. Just A which gives me the impression that everything is pretty much equal to eachother or that's how it makes me feel. Now really there's no way to prove it one way or another until Rama actually uses the weapon (either have an animation update or show up in Extella, that would be good) but these two things still make me skeptical. This is just my opinion anyhow.

[fire_mountain_30]

No not really. It has anti-divine weapons and the trishula, like ppl been saying the whole time but you seem to never get it. Trishula can smoke him so even if you dismiss the anti-divine weapons that nobody knows how those works atm, Trishula is enough and that is one proof.

Parvatti's version requires a seemingly long cast time and it seems that the area effect is dependent on the area defined by the 3 clones, which really isnt that big. it is full of weaknesses.

you can kill one of the clones before they finish summoning the lightning strike or just dash/jump out of the area set up by the clones. basically, a scenario similar to a basketballer trying to dribble past some defenders.

and i understand all that has been said, but unless you show me an NP that both explodes in a wide area, can overpower the rune barrier AND has a very low cast time, all at the same time, Cu has thr skillset to deal with it easily. Even Saber could easily win against kojirou with excalibur, but the cast time made it impractical for straightup combat usage.

and unless Saber Rama's Brahmastra has proven explosive or anti-dodge properties to it, Cu can probably dodge it, even if he needs to resort to speed rune buffs

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so, among other things, it would depend on if he can use it differently than her

[Lily Emilio]

I still doubt that Rama can use Trishula as powerfully as Parvati. The big central part is A) that it doesn't make sense Rama would have a weapon in his armory that would be stronger then the Brahmastra he uses. Even if it was the case in myth as Rama is now it just wouldn't make sense since his Brahmastra clearly feels to be to be his trump card. And if it was weaker to other weapons then why is it seperate and not part of the armory then? I don't know it doesn't feel right Rama has a hidden away EX Rank NP when it's clearly presented that his A+ sword is his major thing. And B) The way Vishnu Bhuja is ranked also makes me doubtful. Normally when a NP is able to give you multiple NPs of varying power or it's ranked to reflect that by giving giving a sliding scale of it's strongest to it's lowest. While that doesn't mean it doesn't have something outside of those ranks, in the case of Rama it doesn't even have that. Just A which gives me the impression that everything is pretty much equal to eachother or that's how it makes me feel. Now really there's no way to prove it one way or another until Rama actually uses the weapon (either have an animation update or show up in Extella, that would be good) but these two things still make me skeptical. This is just my opinion anyhow.

In myth he's not just able to use Vishnu's stuffs, he is capable of using astras of other gods such as Agni, Indra, Shiva, Brahma and so on, so if anything the fact that he can use a bunch of godly weapons go well with his legend. Heck in the first place astras are not limited to just god use, you know how to use it and you have permission to use it then you can use it. Karna's costume in Link is Brahma's holy armament and he chants Agni fire and Indra lightning while he is the son of Surya. It's not strange for Indian heroes to use weapons of multiple gods. Look at Ravana and Indrajit lol.

And you also saw his attitude in his interlude. He just really likes Brahmastra that he begged Vishnu to at least not take away Brahmastra even if all of the other stuffs in his vault get taken away. So Brahmastra is most likely just his go-to favorite to use cuz he used it to kill Ravana, not the strongest thing he ever had cuz his bow and spear are more well known in his legend but we don't see him using them here despite him capable of bringing them out. Karna for example also prefers to shoot Brahmastra, it's one of the most overused astras. And the scale for GoB and UBW makes sense since these vaults contain not just top class weapons but also random low rank stuffs, so it makes sense why these vaults have scaling like that. Rama's vault only contains anti-god and anti-demon stuffs, so it makes sense for the rank to be high all the time, as the slide between strongest and weakest shouldn't be far off form each other. And let's not forget that rank =/= power. It does not represent everything inside the vault or represent the average of everything inside.

So, right now it's just theories vs theories, opinions vs opinions. This is why I didn't state my stand in this versus yet except that I believe Trishula can smoke Cu. I still think it's way too early for any Rama versus without going by headcanons.

[Lily Emilio]

Parvatti's version requires a seemingly long cast time and it seems that the area effect is dependent on the area defined by the 3 clones, which really isnt that big. it is full of weaknesses.

Are you seriously going by FGO animation now? Like are you serious? Parvati is not a fighter, so the way she uses Trishula should be different from an actual warrior. Do you know that Tomoe's NP isn't just her throwing 1 target and shoot? It can destroy a 100F tower. The clone thing is for Parvati. Are you seriously saying when Shiva use it he's gonna have to create 3 bunreis of himself too???

and i understand all that has been said, but unless you show me an NP that both explodes in a wide area, can overpower the rune barrier AND has a very low cast time, all at the same time, Cu has thr skillset to deal with it easily. Even Saber could easily win against kojirou with excalibur, but the cast time made it impractical for straightup combat usage.

No you didn't understand shit. We are going by speculation and so far we do not agree with each other. Why are you repeating these? Rama and Cu are equal in melee, equal in speed and I believe stuffs in his vault do have explosive shits. You don't agree? Then agree to disagree. At least I hope your misconception of his martial skill was cleared, because I'm worried next time it comes up again you'll repeat the same misunderstanding.

so, among other things, it would depend on if he can use it differently than her

And he would. Going by Parvati's game animation to say that it's the same for when Rama using it is ridiculous.

[fire_mountain_30]

please give solid evidence for why his would be different than hers, not just speculation

[Lily Emilio]

please give solid evidence for why his would be different than hers, not just speculation

Please give evidence for why his would be the same as her, not just speculations base on her version of the NP.

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Stop using nonsense logic, thanks.

[fire_mountain_30]

No you didn't understand shit.

how friendly you are

[Lily Emilio]

how friendly you are

Whether I am friendly or not has no relevance in the discussion.

[Iceblade44]

In myth he's not just able to use Vishnu's stuffs, he is capable of using astras of other gods such as Agni, Indra, Shiva, Brahma and so on, so if anything the fact that he can use a bunch of godly weapons go well with his legend. Heck in the first place astras are not limited to just god use, you know how to use it and you have permission to use it then you can use it. Karna's costume in Link is Brahma's holy armament and he chants Agni fire and Indra lightning while he is the son of Surya. It's not strange for Indian heroes to use weapons of multiple gods. Look at Ravana and Indrajit lol.

I know, that's not what I'm being skeptical about. I know that in original myth when a god gave an astra it didn't have any limitations to it, but that's in og myth. It's not so clear here in Fate. Hell Trishula as Parviti's NP is explicitly stated to be weaker then how it was originally and she's a goddess. Even if Rama did use it more powerfully when he was alive I have doubts now that he's a Servant.

And you also saw his attitude in his interlude. He just really likes Brahmastra that he begged Vishnu to at least not take away Brahmastra even if all of the other stuffs in his vault get taken away. So Brahmastra is most likely just his go-to favorite to use cuz he used it to kill Ravana, not the strongest thing he ever had cuz his bow and spear are more well known in his legend but we don't see him using them here despite him capable of bringing them out. Karna for example also prefers to shoot Brahmastra, it's one of the most overused astras. And the scale for GoB and UBW makes sense since these vaults contain not just top class weapons but also random low rank stuffs, so it makes sense why these vaults have scaling like that. Rama's vault only contains anti-god and anti-demon stuffs, so it makes sense for the rank to be high all the time, as the slide between strongest and weakest shouldn't be far off form each other. And let's not forget that rank =/= power. It does not represent everything inside the vault or represent the average of everything inside.

but the sliding scale doesn't need to be as broad as UBW and GoB. Like take Alcides King's Order, that one goes from C ~ A++ and really it's function is much more similar to Rama's armory then Gil's vault. Even if the weapons are so close to each other as long as there is a separation it can be represented by the Rank but it's not. To me it's not the issue of whether or not the Rank is reflecting the overall power in the weapons, it's just it doesn't show any variation which is present for any NPs that gives you a whole different varetiry of NPs in one.

So, right now it's just theories vs theories, opinions vs opinions. This is why I didn't state my stand in this versus yet except that I believe Trishula can smoke Cu. I still think it's way too early for any Rama versus without going by headcanons.

Yes I agree that as of now it is just theories and opinions, because outside of mentions Rama as of yet hasn't used a single NP out of his armory. That said what I just want to point out that yes Trishula can smoke Cu, that is Parviti's Trishula. Other then that it's to unclear on whether Rama's Trishula is the same.

[Lily Emilio]

Hell Trishula as Parviti's NP is explicitly stated to be weaker then how it was originally and she's a goddess. Even if Rama did use it more powerfully when he was alive I have doubts now that he's a Servant.

She is a PSEUDO SERVANT GODDESS who has zero combat skills. We've seen the cases of pseudo servant goddess being even more gimped compare to normal. I highly doubt with her current saint graph she can do better than Rama. Again, speculations.

but the sliding scale doesn't need to be as broad as UBW and GoB. Like take Alcides King's Order, that one goes from C ~ A++ and really it's function is much more similar to Rama's armory then Gil's vault. Even if the weapons are so close to each other as long as there is a separation it can be represented by the Rank but it's not. To me it's not the issue of whether or not the Rank is reflecting the overall power in the weapons, it's just it doesn't show any variation which is present for any NPs that gives you a whole different varetiry of NPs in one.

But you forgot another thing: what exactly is the rank here referring to? We don't know. Look at kid Gil's GoB. It is rank B++ (post interlude) instead of scaling and I think it's the same here for Rama.

Yes I agree that as of now it is just theories and opinions, because outside of mentions Rama as of yet hasn't used a single NP out of his armory. That said what I just want to point out that yes Trishula can smoke Cu, that is Parviti's Trishula. Other then that it's to unclear on whether Rama's Trishula is the same.

I don't base Rama's Trishula on hers. I made it very clear even in my replies to the other guy. My stand is that he should be able to use it better than her and that it can smoke Cu. Whether it's the case or not, we can sit here debate for hundreds more pages and it won't matter.

[castor212]

To me it's not the issue of whether or not the Rank is reflecting the overall power in the weapons, it's just it doesn't show any variation which is present for any NPs that gives you a whole different varetiry of NPs in one.

i have a theory about that
the rank of Vishnu Bujna most likely does not represent of the various rank of the weapon within it, but on the amount it can bring out. The amount of weapon itself definitely have a fixed maximum number, but the amount that can be brought out is dependent on Rama's Divinity.
that is, unlike UBW or GoB which rank was meant to correspond to the item inside it, it could be that VIshnu's Bujna's rank correspond to how much weapon can be brought out, which in itself correspond to Rama's Divinity. It may not be a coincidence too that VB's rank is the same as Rama's current Divinity rank.

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please give solid evidence for why his would be different than hers, not just speculation

well you cant really do that
because we have no scene of Rama using it to begin with
you cant ask for more than speculation because speculation is all we have at this point
it can, however, be an educated speculation

Trishula Shakti.A limited release of the Trishula, the trident she borrowed from Shiva.
Parvati’s Class is determined by which weapon Shiva bestows her. Thanks to the Trishula, Parvati acquired the qualifications for the Lancer Class.
Of course, she cannot display the true worth of this weapon like Shiva, but that is conversely helping maintain her framework as a Servant.

Point on case here would be
1) Parvati is a pseudo servant of a god who became DS, where as Rama is a keshin (incarnation) of a god that lived as a human and then becomes HS
2) Parvati's is a limited release, being a not war god and all that. THe case could be different with Rama.
3) Parvati's also using it as a way to maintain her framework as a Servant, unlike Rama

now thats not to say its definitely going to be different
but we have cases where different NP used by different guys, while having same furagana, shows different effect and usage and even different title

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tbph i think this sums it up best

The real answer is that as is we can only speculate what Rama can do with his bag of tricks
and GO mats doesnt help you there, so you're left thinking what kewl indian nuke/superweapon can he use


we just dont know

[Iceblade44]

She is a PSEUDO SERVANT GODDESS who has zero combat skills. We've seen the cases of pseudo servant goddess being even more gimped compare to normal. I highly doubt with her current saint graph she can do better than Rama. Again, speculations.

That's why I said doubts. I'm just saying how I think it. Also yes she's a Psedou Servant but she is a goddess. I mean it says something when you weapon is needed but it's still EX Rank.

But you forgot another thing: what exactly is the rank here referring to? We don't know. Look at kid Gil's GoB. It is rank B++ (post interlude) instead of scaling and I think it's the same here for Rama.

That's fair but not the only interpretation. In regards to Ko-Gil I can see a reason for a static rank is that it's talking about when he Invokes GoB true name for a blade storm, which Is his limit break thus the Rank represents that as an attack. Well that's just a reason I can come up for it anyhow.

I don't base Rama's Trishula on hers. I made it very clear even in my replies to the other guy. My stand is that he should be able to use it better than her and that it can smoke Cu. Whether it's the case or not, we can sit here debate for hundreds more pages and it won't matter.

Yes but it's just i disagree with that, what you have is your speculation. And what I have said is mine. That's pretty much it. Both shall remain speculation since there isn't a way to prove it one way or another. But then again that is the whole point of this thread. To just make speculation. Anyhow that's just my view pretty much.

[Lily Emilio]

i have a theory about that
the rank of Vishnu Bujna most likely does not represent of the various rank of the weapon within it, but on the amount it can bring out. The amount of weapon itself definitely have a fixed maximum number, but the amount that can be brought out is dependent on Rama's Divinity.
that is, unlike UBW or GoB which rank was meant to correspond to the item inside it, it could be that VIshnu's Bujna's rank correspond to how much weapon can be brought out, which in itself correspond to Rama's Divinity. It may not be a coincidence too that VB's rank is the same as Rama's current Divinity rank.

This makes the most sense to me.

[Iceblade44]

i have a theory about that
the rank of Vishnu Bujna most likely does not represent of the various rank of the weapon within it, but on the amount it can bring out. The amount of weapon itself definitely have a fixed maximum number, but the amount that can be brought out is dependent on Rama's Divinity.
that is, unlike UBW or GoB which rank was meant to correspond to the item inside it, it could be that VIshnu's Bujna's rank correspond to how much weapon can be brought out, which in itself correspond to Rama's Divinity. It may not be a coincidence too that VB's rank is the same as Rama's current Divinity rank.

Now that's interesting. Yeah that can make sense.

[RoydGolden]

Okada Izou versus EMIYA

[Iceblade44]

I don't think Izou has an answer for arrows of mass destruction

[Reign]

Shirou with Archer arm vs Bedivere with ExcaliArm (he's alive and not a Servant right?).

This feels like something that's been done already but I've had it in the back of my mind for half a day now.

[Rafflesiac]

Assuming you mean living Bedivere then I'm pretty positive Bedivere can use Dead End Airgetlam more than HF Shirou can defend against it, let alone that Switch On, Airgetlam makes Bedi Servant-tier, which really doesn't help Shirou's odds.

[Megas]

Shirou with Archer arm vs Bedivere with ExcaliArm (he's alive and not a Servant right?).

This feels like something that's been done already but I've had it in the back of my mind for half a day now.

Gonna give it to Bedi. Guy's still a knight in an era where wyverns and stuff are running around.

Archer arm Shirou essentially would have to kill himself to win against most opponents of that level in one on one who didn't actually want him to win.

Honestly, I feel like EMIYA would be a more even match than Shirou.