Dude, you wrote "outlier" yourself...
The Kingu example here is "when X which is to anti Y get used against a super outlier Y then X can still get fucked but you can't just call it shitty"
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You are pretty much discrediting yourself
Reread my comment 1000 more times until you get it that the example discredit YOUR logic, you're just wasting my time going in circles.
How is it nonsense if you have previously agreed with me in past discussions?Originally Posted by Mizukume
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I am sure you read yours as many times as you tell me to. I am sure it makes for a great echo chamber
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You are the one that jumped into the conversation in the first place, a habit you yourself have admited to. You are the one going out of your way to waste your own time.
I am fine discussing the topic with other people. Your input is not necessary if you dont feel up to it
Edit: Dude, your claim doesn't have a "not counting OP chars" clause or "non damaging NPs only" which means my example is valid, next time add that then you can call me out. Or if that was what you initially meant, write that. But sure if you want another, take a look at how many times an anti-unit NP failed to kill a unit, or how vast the definition of a unit is.
But you know what, don't reply, I'll let the others talk instead because I already said enough of what others already said.
Last edited by Lily Emilio; August 10th, 2018 at 07:02 AM.
Hell, the very first Noble Phantasm we see, Gáe Bolg, was an Anti-Unit attack which failed to kill Saber.
She is an absolute unit.
FGO Supports
It even failed to kill Lancer himself in a timely manner!
don't quote me on this
Reminder that Herk flexed his muscly muscles and broke Gil's chain, it's not new that top dog divine beings can break the chains
Besides, every NP is different, works different and has a different end result
Hmm, you're right.
...[REDACTED] is a [REDACTED] then?
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Anti-X NPs meant to target/affect X =/= X gets destroyed/captured/whatever super hard all the time. Seems easy enough to understand.
Not gonna butt in that conversation, but what are the kanji used for each "divinity"? Or are they the same in both cases?Yes I did, and he is talking about the same thing I did. Divinity as a skill (what you've been babbling about the entire time) is different from Divinity as a trait, but they are grouped into the same thing in FGO gameplay because both indicate your Divine status.
Divinity as a skill indicates "how much of a divine spirit you are", and if you are a monster this might affect your rank as a Divine Spirit (but that did not happen to Tamamo, her Divinity is still A despite most of it already being sealed due to being a servant + self seal, her being considered an anti-hero Monster like Medusa didn't do shit to lower her rank). Divinity as a trait is "you are considered Divine". The chain of heaven works as long as you are considered "Divine", meaning it works on both types of Divinity.
Just look at that list, even Lahmu being born from Tiamat is considered divine, as it is considered part of her body - the body of a God, a divine as fuck being. Bull of heaven, sphinx are divine beasts, Ereshkigal is goddess who can turn huge ghost form, Greater Grail is ??? and Mitsuhide Mara despite taking the demon king of the 6th heaven role is also divine. As long as you are divine you are targets of anti-divine NPs, not that you must have a skill that give you a rating of how high you might be as a divine spirit.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
i will reply with greater ammounts of source material and arguments in a few hours.
friend, this happens EVERY TIME we discuss NPs and i make a power generalization. i mean very straightforward KABBOOM! NPs and i show no intention of meaning these other sorts of NPs and yiu start thinking i did. every time i think the context is obvious, you think otherwise and then we have to do this song and dance for several comments and i get the feeling said dance isnt even good for your health because you seem so heated about things that it begins to make me feel concern
I'm more concern about your reading comprehension for the source materials and failure to express your ideas that not just me but the rest of ppl here also noticed, don't act like I'm the only one having problems with it, just look at how many ppl agree with me on this, stop bullshitting and lying to yourself.
And the fact that you generalize power is where we disagree all the time. I don't and I never generalize power like you do because that is the shittiest type of argument and logic you can do for a series like this, which is why we kept clashing.
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And no I don't need anymore of your "arguments" that conforms to your generalization of power that I know for sure I won't agree with, don't waste your time, use it to do something else or reply to the ppl above, because they are saying exactly what I've been saying.
Last edited by Lily Emilio; August 10th, 2018 at 09:09 AM.
This is more specific to Herk than anyone else since he was doing one of those impossible things again. He actually broke the rules multiple times in that fight.
I mean, sure the man overcoming impossibilities doing the impossible isn't strange
but considering thismentioning it is double spot on since its A an outlier and B the anti divine chains being used against divineThe Kingu example here is "when X which is to anti Y get used against a super outlier Y then X can still get fucked
not sure what your point is
ok, i was going to mention first why i think using Enuma Elish as a default example is bad policy, but let's skip that.
what i was trying to say originally is that in "vaccum" conditions, as in, no OP opposing targets and nothing blocking them, they would have the AoE to take out the things they are designated to take out. sure, not all armies are the same size, not all countries are the same size and not all planets are the same size, but that they could take out things of these designations of at least some size. so my argument would be closer in nature to "well, if Brahmastra Kundala cant take out the USA, at least it can take out switzerland".
and i think using Gae Bolg is a bad example of how NPs fail to kill their designated target for 2 reasons.
1- gae bolg kills through a stab. even if it didnt hit the heart, it still did the level of damage that is supposed to, which is what i have argued all along. my interest is in damage dealt and AoE range.
2- saber says in Zero against Diarmuid that NPs can come in the form of instantly deciding a match or helping to overturn the match. a lot of anti-units are the less decisive type and when they arent, they failt because the target can counter them, but that isnt the NP's fault. it would have done exactly what it was supposed to do if it wasnt actively countered or if it didnt target some magical beast too powerful for is paygrade. Going back to Brahmastra Kundala, a country full of muggles and with no anti-missile capabilities would present neither of the two mentioned hindrances. a country is its target and there is nothing there to openly counter it. its destruction should be absolute until as far as its AoE allows it.
and honestly, i would argue that NPs are more powerful in truth and have greater AoE than their designation implies.
for example, Excalibur is anti-fortress, but in HA, it didnt stop at just one building. it kept mowing down the other parts of the city that it reached
a weakened Caladbolg destroyed an island (though that also took into account some unique properties of the NP)
Tomoe Gouzen (this one i only know from 3rd party accounts), destroyed a large tower with an anti-unit NP.
in the Apo manga, Frank's Blasted tree was gigantic. it dwarfed the Hanging Gardens in the distance.
in the Strange Fake manga, the enuma elish clashes were absolutely titanic when observed from outher space and i dont even think Anti-World would normally even imply that level of power.
in America, Tesla (take it with a grain of salt because the dude is drunk on his own hype most of the time) even said that if he could fully unleash his NP, he could destroy North America and nothing in his NP sheet would even imply that.
fell free to mention other instances where NPs hit the landscape without reserve.
also, going back to Tiamat for a second, her Monstruous Strenght mentions that her strenght is on par with a Titan. do you think this is a refference to the white titan?
Last edited by fire_mountain_30; August 10th, 2018 at 03:29 PM.
It says her strength makes her on par with a giant not titan.
In these casesThis is almost of the highest grade. Having the black mud as her body and materializing with a draconic body, Tiamat’s Strength is like that of a giant’s.
Titan = 巨神
Giant = 巨人
Xseed was actually pretty smart in their translation of that because its 巨神 which literally is like huge god. Titan captures all three meanings, titanic = big, titan = gods, titans in hercules = huge gods.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
Iskandar should also be included in this because his Ionian Hetairoi was explicitly stated as him accomplishing the impossible with his comrades.
also, i believe this whole thing started when someone asked how strong Lion King was and that she was lacking feats.
a weakened, partially released Rhon hollowed a mountain in Case Files volume 1
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