Badass Versus Thread

[Ronove]

She's technically still a deity even when you summoned her in Chaldea, she's one of Chaldea's few divine spirit class servant. We don't know details about the difference in power between divine spirit class servants and normal servants yet, or how much their servant saint graph limited them. The only mentioned limitation iirc, as Mashu said to Kingu, is that they can't use Authorities.

There has yet to be a divine spirit class servant in the group with the host of their ability in-tact. They've repeatedly been given some rationale for why they aren't as powerful as their higher ascensions. The only exceptions to name were the elder gorgon sisters, who also admitted to being weak. Funny that.

As another example: Kiara, while not a divine spirit is every bit as dangerous as one, if not moreso but she's also severely depowered in comparison to Beast III. Again, the running theme here is that the Chaldeans are constantly denied from getting characters that are too OP. I don't see why Quetz would suddenly become the exception.

But even disregarding the status of Quetzalcoatl's saint graph, the problem remains that an entity that she could eliminate with ease would not have made any kind of difference in the battle against Tiamat. This contrasts how Gilgamesh was treating the bull of heaven like a trump card among every fighter he had and flipped when Ishtar lost it.

Don't get me wrong. Under any seen iteration, Lucha-neesan is obscenely strong compared to just about every servant and would likely tear Herc a new one, however the Bull of heaven instance is one hell of an outlier. That or Ishtarin botched the summon and it wasn't fully manifested for some reason. I haven't read any translations so I'm at a loss there.

[ChiakiKakumei]

Mamika (Re:Creators) vs Sion/V.Sion

[Lily Emilio]

I don't see why Quetz would suddenly become the exception.

Where did I say that Quetz is exception? I said that we don't know anything regarding how much power she lost. It can be just 1% loss, or 99% lost. Who knows. But we do know that they cannot use Authorities, as oppose to Extra where it is stated that Divine Spirit class servants naturally comes with Authorities. Ishtar didn't lose much fighting power when she came to Chaldea btw. Ontop of Authorities lost, being in pseudo servant vessel of Rin sealed warping function of her bow, lowered her Beauty Manifestation from EX to B as well as restricting her from putting magic energy into anything that is not jewels.

But even disregarding the status of Quetzalcoatl's saint graph, the problem remains that an entity that she could eliminate with ease would not have made any kind of difference in the battle against Tiamat. This contrasts how Gilgamesh was treating the bull of heaven like a trump card among every fighter he had and flipped when Ishtar lost it.

The bull cannot stop Tiamat, they planned to use it to buy time for Ereskigal to open the gate to the underworld. Basically because it's as big as a mountain they thought it can stall Tiamat and her minions for 1 day.

Don't get me wrong. Under any seen iteration, Lucha-neesan is obscenely strong compared to just about every servant and would likely tear Herc a new one, however the Bull of heaven instance is one hell of an outlier. That or Ishtarin botched the summon and it wasn't fully manifested for some reason. I haven't read any translations so I'm at a loss there.

I wasn't even arguing with you lol. I simply explained that there are too many unknown things regarding how much power Quetz lost after she joined Chaldea.

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Also regarding the wresting match topic, here are the wrestling rules:

The rules of lucha libre are similar to American singles matches. Matches can be won by pinning the opponent to the mat for the count of three, making him submit, knocking him out of the ring for a predetermined count (generally twenty) or by disqualification. Using the ropes for leverage is illegal, and once a luchador is on the ropes, his opponent must release any holds and he will not be able to pin him.

So if Quetz or Herc can manage to pin down the other and count to 3, that person will win. I'll place my bet on Quetz but I think it's a close match cuz Herc is Berserker, he doesn't play by the rules.

[zikari8]

We are talking about wrestling match, not a fight to death. And in term of wrestling feats Herc is less impressive as of now.

We don't even know what 2 of her skills does or how destructive her 2nd NP can do by summoning thunderstorms and heavy rain, or what her pterosaur can do, or how strong her pseudo sun attack that burned off a bunch of chaos tide is when she's in servant saint graph. So if you want a battle to death you either have to go with the god mode Quetz who obviously will destroy Herc in a fight, or wait for the material book info for her servant version.

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suplex

Ah, right, I somehow forgot about her other NPs. That's just silly of me.

But, either way, my point is that the ability to brush off the damage from servant Quetz's strikes and holds is a huge advantage for Herc in a wrestling match. It reduces Quetz's strategies to pinning, overpowering him with her NP, or knocking him out of the ring. And in the long run, Herc's physical attacks will build up damage on Quetz while he remains better for wear. But yea, as you said, we don't really have a good idea of Quetz's other abilities, so it's hard to tell what crazy things she can do to enhance her lucha skills.

[Ruisu]

It reduces Quetz's strategies to pinning, overpowering him with her NP, or knocking him out of the ring.

So, just the regular strategies for winning in wrestling plus her noble phantasm?

[zikari8]

So, just the regular strategies for winning in wrestling plus her noble phantasm?

This is where I admit I know nothing of wrestling and may have been under the impression that the primary strategy was beating up the opponent until they couldn't move and then pinning them.

... yea, okay, I'll just withdraw with my head down...

[Ruisu]

It's not like I'm some expert, it just sounded funny in the way you worded it lol

[Lily Emilio]

Keep in mind that even if you're immune to damage, it won't stop you from being overwhelmed by the force behind the attacks. The fight with Darnicula in Apo pretty much had alot of that. Karna and Achilles didn't take damage from the vampire's attacks but still get thrown away into the wall and smashed on to the ground.

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This is where I admit I know nothing of wrestling and may have been under the impression that the primary strategy was beating up the opponent until they couldn't move and then pinning them.

... yea, okay, I'll just withdraw with my head down...

Yes that's the primary strategy, but there are cases that you trick the opponent into a headlock to choke their breath so they surrender or pin their shoulders to the ground for a quick count by taking advantage of their weight (cuz if they are too heavy, it's harder for them to kick out when pinned).

[Mcjon01]

Trick the opponent into a headlock just sounds funny. Like you baited them in with a hug then went for the ol' switcheroo.

[Lily Emilio]

All of the fights are scripted so that is a very possible situation lol. The techniques might be real but at the end of the day, you still need to entertain the audience. I can see Herc playing heel role then it turn out Quetz is the real heel when she pulls out that certain nasty face.

[Nobody]

Mamika (Re:Creators) vs Sion/V.Sion

Sion gets Magical Splash Flared

[castor212]

Actually now that i think about it i dont think Zherc can do complicated ones of wrestle movements and techniques as a zerk.

[Ruisu]

He can rely on some sort of muscle memory and instinct to basically fight with almost the same finesse some level of the skill he had in life, at least when it comes to the style of using a stone slab as sword. But I doubt it would help him in super-servant-wrestling.

[castor212]

Yeah which is why i said the more complicated ones are out

Then again i dont even know how complicated are the complicated ones lol

[GundamFSN]

Just wanna say, that Gugu hasn't fully materialized at the time Quetz lucha'd him. Maybe his body is only as heavy as a bunch of clouds at that time!

[Iceblade44]

Just wanna say, that Gugu hasn't fully materialized at the time Quetz lucha'd him. Maybe his body is only as heavy as a bunch of clouds at that time!

Ah that makes more sense. But still don't underestimate how heavy clouds are, there freaking gigantic. Even an average cloud weighs around 1 million pounds.

[34]

Ah that makes more sense. But still don't underestimate how heavy clouds are, there freaking gigantic. Even an average cloud weighs around 1 million pounds.

That's around 500.000 kg, just so you know.

[Alazani]

So guys who's the strongest mc? (plz no spoilers)

[eddyak]

Why ask if you know the answer's a spoiler anyway?

Spoiler-less, I guess I'd have to say Ryougi, on account of being hax.

[Mcjon01]

So guys who's the strongest mc? (plz no spoilers)

Notorious B.I.G.