Badass Versus Thread

[Iceblade44]

No, it's still an NP even if he doesn't call its name. Excalibur is still Ecalibur even when it isn't lasering.

Gordius wheels position is in flux really. For all intents and purposes, with its powers and abilites it is an NP, but according to GO mats, technically the chariot is a Servant armament, like Nero's sword, Atalanta's bow, and Kojirous blade. Something that is unique but not an NP. For Iskandar to have such a chariot like that is probably to emphasise that he's supposed to be a really strong Servant I think.

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Via isn't just a mode but a separate NP, like how Arondight and Arondight Overload are different NPs
In fact, the chariot, the bulls themselves, and via expugantio are all separate NPs, if you look at the glossary for the animation materials for Fate Zero Season 2

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Just like how Drake's Golden Hind itself is a NP and the Wild Hunt is a NP too

They probably retcon that going by GO mats

[You]

Gordius wheels position is in flux really. For all intents and purposes, with its powers and abilites it is an NP, but according to GO mats, technically the chariot is a Servant armament, like Nero's sword, Atalanta's bow, and Kojirous blade. Something that is unique but not an NP. For Iskandar to have such a chariot like that is probably to emphasise that he's supposed to be a really strong Servant I think.

Via Expungito: Distant Trampling Domination
Rank: A+
Type: Anti-Army Noble Phantasm
Range: 2~50
Maximum number of targets: 100 persons
The trampling attack performed with Noble Phantasm "Gordius Wheel." The damage is decided twice, first by the hooves, then the wheels of the chariot. Along with all physical damage, there is also the effects of lightnings, the manifestation of Zeus. Should the target fail its STR check, additional damage will be dealt.

It's definitely a NP. GO mats just talks about it's more like a weapon like Medusa's chains. Not that it's not a NP.

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Nvm, I read the mats entry. So it's like Li Shuwen's NP in that it's a NP but not really a NP.

[fire_mountain_30]

Story: Oh in this specific case this servant need contract, but we don't mention this anywhere else cuz the rest of the cases this is not needed, and we even show many cases of solo servants are extremely powerful.
you: They mentioned it like 2,3 times so that means this applies to ALL servants in the story as well, ignoring all other facts the story provided.


You are the one who is doing "it doesn't have feats LOL" to Lion King's beam, are you talking about yourself?

Musashi's attack was a very precise top class sword technique, it is a slicing attack that cuts even the fate of the target. Galatine, Clarent, Excalibur do not and cannot perform the same feat simply because they work on completely different concept and attacking method. They can't make the same cut, because all they can do is fire off a huge blast, not a super sword cut of that level. A sword slash like Musashi's has extremely high cutting capability, so it can cut through the thick skin and flesh. Blast attacks are aoe, they do not have the same cutting capability, this is common sense. And this is why you don't group them together, my dude.


I killed YHVH with my Pixie waifu after 100+ hours of grinding and customizing. SMT powerlvl =/= Fate powerlvl.

Except that none of your arguments could point out that Gae Bolg is the same type of attack and similar effect as Stella. Your argument is already false the moment you try to use the rank of the NPs as the evauation while ignoring contexts and how the attacks themselves work, because we already knew for a fact that NP ranks don't simply represent the pure DC of the NP, but other things and even the weapon where the attack is fired from.

Except that we already knew Arash fired that shot and overcame the attack because he "rised above Fate". You are reading a series called Fate. It doesn't matter if Arash is near death or not, it doesn't matter how much logical calculation you do you find out why he could do it, he got that shot in because he rises above Fate, above the inescapable doom. And because of such CONTEXT, you don't use it to estimate the power of the attack in the first place. CONTEXT IS IMPORTANT.

A- hey, i said that i already agreed with you for the most part. the whole contract thing just jumped into my mind randomly and i figured that it wouldnt hurt to mention it as a potential factor.

B- on the whole musashi thing. what you said is new info to me. the wiki doeant mention what you said and none of the forums i read this kind of stuff on mentioned it either, so all i ever got from it was that it was a regular multi-elemental beam.

but that level of detail wasnt the point of the argument, if you couldnt tell. the argument was " assuming that it was just a regular beamu, why wouldnt i be able to use it to compare its feats with other NPs"?

also, i never said that LK doesnt have feats, just that i dont seem to find them as impressive as you do.

C- on the Arash Fate thing, arent all Servants supposed to be great heroes that can overcome Fate in the first place? why would i then suppose that a lot of other servants couldnt overcome Fate in the same fashion, if they happened to have good firepower? also, if you are really going to keep holding in to that argument, we arent going to agree on quite a few things. same reason why i cant take the reasoning for the achilles NP level punch thing all that seriously and think that many other servants wouldnt be able to replicate it

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Also Fuyuki is tiny. You can traverse it on foot in a couple of hours.

did you see the map in Ataraxia? sorry, but if the VN mentioned that 2 hour walk, it really doesnt seem to translate well in terms of scale in that map. it looks about as large or larger than my hometown. 2 hours would most likely not be enough

[8000]

I don't see why Arash being injured would affect Stella, it's not performed with physical strength. He used it in Fragments when he was being taxed by poison. Same with the bulb.

You can't really say he "needed" a CS when the first CS was just getting him to use it and the other two were just pragmatic. Also we have no idea what rank Dendara Bulb is and I wouldn't be even a little surprised if it turned out to be an EX rank blast given it can one-shot Tokyo. All we know is it's inferior to Rhongomyniad which is a point in favor of Lion King.

[Lily Emilio]

B- on the whole musashi thing. what you said is new info to me. the wiki doeant mention what you said and none of the forums i read this kind of stuff on mentioned it either, so all i ever got from it was that it was a regular multi-elemental beam.

Musashi fights with the power of her mystic eye all the time, and her NP's performance is directly tied to her awakening of mukou in Shimousa. And even if the attack is a beam, the beam is a slashing/cutting one. A beam blast is different from a beam slash. And that is beside the point. Everyone knows that a slash from a sword would have a completely different effect from an explosion from a gas tank.

but that level of detail wasnt the point of the argument, if you couldnt tell. the argument was " assuming that it was just a regular beamu, why wouldnt i be able to use it to compare its feats with other NPs"?

There is no "regular" beam here in anything thing you've mentioned. Clarent is different from Balmung, Excalibur is different from Galatine, Enuma Elish is different from Excalibur. If you pick Excalibur as regular, then none of the other ones are. You can't "assume" and try to simplify things, because things are not that simple.

also, i never said that LK doesnt have feats, just that i dont seem to find them as impressive as you do.

You downplayed its power by saying it "did not kill any servant", that my dude, is you saying it's not impressive cuz it didn't have a feat that you deem worth praising.

C- on the Arash Fate thing, arent all Servants supposed to be great heroes that can overcome Fate in the first place? why would i then suppose that a lot of other servants couldnt overcome Fate in the same fashion, if they happened to have good firepower?

No, because not everyone has the same personality as Arash, and not all servants are confident and heroic as Arash. Once again you are trying to simplify things and group things together.

also, if you are really going to keep holding in to that argument, we arent going to agree on quite a few things.

What you should do is find something else to talk about or stop trying to saying anything that will invite ppl to reply if you want to stop what you said you don't want to continue.

same reason why i cant take the reasoning for the achilles NP level punch thing all that seriously and think that many other servants wouldnt be able to replicate it

Sir, other servants wouldn't be able to replicate it because THEY ARE NOT ACHILLES.

[8000]

What's Achilles NP level punch? First I've heard of it.

[Rafflesiac]

What's Achilles NP level punch? First I've heard of it.

The final blow of Achilles vs. Chiron where Achilles gives it his absolute all, staking his pride as a Heroic Spirit and showcasing how he's surpassed his teacher and how far he's come and so on and the text says it's on par with an NP if I'm remembering You's summary correctly. It's like how Shirou was hopped up on Protagonist Power when he fought Gil.

[8000]

Neat.

[Zurvan]

Who would've thought the guy that can accelerate real damn fast is capable of punching real damn hard
Even without context this one sounds like a no brainer

[fire_mountain_30]

hey, i stopped replying when i said i didnt want to anymore a few days ago. i even started a Kiara discussion

then someone revived the discussion all of a sudden, smeared my name for no good reason (probably because they were bored to shit IRL) and all i did as a reply to that was make sure people understood the arguments i was trying to convey

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i just wanted to make sure you understood what i said. yiu want to disagree or tell me i am misinformed, then i will accept that and move on, but i will at least make sure you understand where i am coming from

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Also, i do know that Musashi's NP is a slashing attack. that is the reason i mentioned Galantine and not Arondight for example.

i mentioned Clarant B.A and Excalibur because they are both (kind of) slashing beams

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but ok, if no one is going to necro this thing out of the blue again, i will propose a totally different discussion and scenario. give me a couple minutes

[fire_mountain_30]

so, i have always been curious on how a HGW with this cast would turn out (not including Jeanne and Arturia).

https://d3ieicw58ybon5.cloudfront.ne...777efb3ec1.jpg

so, since i sort of need to include Masters as a weakpoint for Assassin and Caster, let's say that the Masters are just regular people with next to 0 magical abilities and no particular charisma and that the servants are all suplied by a large pool of Mana crystals like Alkeides, but the Masters are still a major weakpoint.

so, what factions did you think would end up forming?

who has good abilities to counter who?

which would be the order in which they die?

what scenarios can you see unfolding?

[Iceblade44]

The final confrontation would probably be between the knight classes. Darius would make a goodish mid boss and Mephisto will probably bring his master to ruin with lots of collateral damage. Personally the winner would probably be Altera

[Rafflesiac]

Scathach jobs, Arjuna takes it

[Iceblade44]

You know wasn't even Scathach scared of Altera during her Trial quest? Yeah Scourge of God takes this

[fire_mountain_30]

i think it was more of Scat thinking that Altera was strong enough to get her excited anout combat.

i have been wondering if Darius could use his army to clug up the Gate of Skye. can you even clug a portal type NP?

[fire_mountain_30]

ah wait. that was Artemis

[Rafflesiac]

That implies that Scathach couldn't suck off an army

[castor212]

Gordius Wheel would need less than an hour to destroy a city and it isnt even an NP, while LK needs to go about destroying the same area 1 crater at a time. you can look at the map and get a feel for how many times she would need to shoot it to destroy the equivalent of Fuyuki.

It took abot an hiur to destroy Shinto.
Shinto is not all of Fuyuki. Like, its half of it.

Also

Thus― there is no mistake. That which appeared at the empty space struck by Rider, that must be, without a doubt, his Noble Phantasm.

Novel says its an NP, mats says its classified as an NP.
P sure its an NP of its own righr.

[forumghost]

The final confrontation would probably be between the knight classes. Darius would make a goodish mid boss and Mephisto will probably bring his master to ruin with lots of collateral damage. Personally the winner would probably be Altera

Altera is the great destroyer though, she'd probably wind up being the final boss that loses to whoever the Protagonist is.

Agree with Darius as the midboss though.

[castor212]

Its just that your "dont fine really impressive" for some reason translates into "downplay it hard" in your replies, which makes me crease my eyebrows.

Im not trying to smear your name or anything, simply pointing out that its not weird that you are misinformed on the details when all you have in English are summaries.

Like, i said this in the very beginning. Thats it, really.