Badass Versus Thread

[Ronove]

i recall Gawain saying that he was equal to the entire camelot knights put together, including the king, not that he was equal to merely the king

Gawain said he was equal to the Lion King and could have defeated her if he took the initiative. And she alone makes all the other knights non-factors anyway.

summoning servants isnt an indicator of your combat strenght. Cu beat Scathach that can do the same, if you want to go by that logic

It's indicative to her magic power since she summoned them with her own strength and is maintaining them.

Base Gawain, who literally just stood there and took it out of loyalty

Gawain's the most durable KoTR and he was K.O'd by what was described as a love tap.

[fire_mountain_30]

who is maintaining the Celtic Servants in America? the Grail, i suppose and since he has it, that throws the logic of her victory via having superior magic power out of the window

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when you fight the Lion King, who do you canonically have? Mash and a near dead Bediere? considering they managed to survive her onslaught in those conditions, i doubt her knights can be called "non-factors", given their power comparisson to Mash

[Ronove]

when you fight the Lion King, who do you canonically have? Mash and a near dead Bediere? considering they managed to survive her onslaught in those conditions, i doubt her knights can be called "non-factors", given their power comparisson to Mash

You have Mashu (who has an NP that can block AAS and no-sell Excalibur with a fake name), your party of X servants, Da Vinci and Bedivere, who was a threat to LK because of Excalibur. Even then, Lion King is never defeated, the singularity just starts collapsing after her sword is returned to her.

You're severely underestimating someone Ozymandias felt he had no chance against, even with a grail and Chaldea backing him up.

[You]

Well the goal against the Lion King wasn't to win but to give back the sword

[fire_mountain_30]

fairly certain that the "party of X Servants" isnt a thing in the actual canon story, not to mention that Cu alter also fought a party of Servants.

Bediere was almost dead before the invasion even started and killed himself further fighting Gawain.

Cu alter fought Mash, Rama and Nightingale

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unless my memory is massively failing me, the summaries translated on reddit only say that Ozy didnt engage the camelot faction out of concern for his people, who would die anyway ffom history incineration.

Mash even called him out on being way too slothful for that.

[Zurvan]

Fairly certain your party of X Servants is a canon thing

[Ronove]

fairly certain that the "party of X Servants" isnt a thing in the actual canon story

It's mentioned in story that you can have servants backing you. It's canon.

not to mention that Cu alter also fought a party of Servants.

Not seeing how that's relevant to Simba not actually losing or being as inconvenienced as you claimed. The fight as the story shows us is LK stomping the group with authority, Mashu blocking rhongobongo with Lord Camelot and ends with Bedi stabbing her with the sword.

Bediere was almost dead before the invasion even started and killed himself further fighting Gawain.
Cu alter fought Mash, Rama and Nightingale

None of this actually means anything. Bedivere's only contribution was returning the sword and we have a stronger Mashu. Like we know Ozy > Cu, by a lot. Grail Ozy > Grail Cu. Lion King > Grail Ozy > Grail Cu.

unless my memory is massively failing me, the summaries translated on reddit only say that Ozy didnt engage the camelot faction out of concern for his people, who would die anyway ffom history incineration.

He was making excuses because he didn't think he could win. He even says that if you'd told him King Hassan was your ally against LK, he'd have joined you right from the start and wouldn't have wasted time.

[8000]

The party of X Servants is canon, or at least it's the only viable explanation for being able to defeat people like Romulus with only early Mashu and Nero on hand.

[SpoonyViking]

Scáthach vs. Sun-buffed Gawain

[fire_mountain_30]

when is it mentioned that yiu actually have servants backing you? in Lostbelt?

[Zurvan]

I believe it was in one of the Epic of Remnant chapters

Iirc there was some discussion regarding that, and people were both happy (for things making more sense) and sad (because we didn't beat Goetia mano a mano, as well as other combat scenarios)
which places it after Salomon

[fire_mountain_30]

"None of this actually means anything. Bedivere's only contribution was returning the sword and we have a stronger Mashu."

so basically, the part of your argument that is not just based on arbitrary powerscalling is that Mash+party of servants survived against the LK and werent even trying to kill her per say, VS Mash + arguably the best support servant in-series + a guy equal to Karna + a party of Servants beating Cu alter with massive effort while activeky trying to kill him.

i fail to see how you can properly discern who is stronger given how different these encounters are

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I believe it was in one of the Epic of Remnant chapters

Iirc there was some discussion regarding that, and people were both happy (for things making more sense) and sad (because we didn't beat Goetia mano a mano, as well as other combat scenarios)
which places it after Salomon

yeah, i heard about that. however, given that there were also people in this forum and outside it saying that demon pillars were made from the people incinerated and that was proven false, i will wait for the summaries to take it seriously

[Zurvan]

Would it help you if I told you that one is speculation, and one I'm 80% sure was commentary provided by a jp reader?

[Magikewl]

Wasn’t that just JP illiterate people looking at pictures and playing leapfrog all by themselves

[Zurvan]

Yes it was

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the demon pillar speculation that is

[Ronove]

so basically, the part of your argument that is not just based on arbitrary powerscalling is that Mash+party of servants survived against the LK and werent even trying to kill her per say, VS Mash + arguably the best support servant in-series + a guy equal to Karna + a party of Servants beating Cu alter with massive effort while activeky trying to kill him.

i fail to see how you can properly discern who is stronger given how different these encounters are

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yeah, i heard about that. however, given that there were also people in this forum and outside it saying that demon pillars were made from the people incinerated and that was proven false, i will wait for the summaries to take it seriously

They would have defeated LK just like all the rest if they could. They couldn't. Also have no idea where you got that Rama is equal to Karna or that Nightingale is the strongest support and why you keep ignoring that Camelot Mash is better than Murica Mash. it's only because of Lord Camelot that all of you don't get fried.

And I don't think I even argued scaling the two based on how they were defeated in the story, you're the one who brought that up. My argument is that LK has more solid feats and hype using Ozy, King Hassan and Gawain as evidence. Come to think of it, there was also Roman saying LK's lasers were many times stronger than a top servant's NP.

[fire_mountain_30]

Ozy > Cu, by a lot. Grail Ozy > Grail Cu. Lion King > Grail Ozy > Grail Cu.

you mean Cu Alter, who before he even got the Grail from Medb could kill Karna and tank Brahmastras to the face and beat Scathach? i doubt there is enough info available to give any good justification for how Ozy is superior to Cu Alter. hell, i doubt that Ozy is going to get wanked harder than a guy who is supposed to be equal to hercules and Arthur when they are all at their maximum power (and wouldnt being in Brittain give Arthur access to the spear, just as it would give Achilles his armour and Cu his castle?)

heck even base Cu i have i would have difficulty saying that he would just straight out lose to Ozy, Ozy is the guy that specializes in fighting a lot of people at the same time with arguable success in regards to how fast he accomplishes his kills vs Cu who specializes in killing individuals with greater certainty and can take on armies as well

[Ronove]

you mean Cu Alter, who before he even got the Grail from Medb could kill Karna

Cu Alter was always powered by the grail. He'd be weaker than Scathach otherwise, because the mats indirectly confirm that regular Cu Alter is not stronger than his Lancer/Caster versions. Lancer is far weaker than Scat. And you're overstating what happened with Karna. Cu Alter shanked him in the back when he couldn't defend himself. Karna retaliates with VS while near death and give Cu severe burns; enough for him to run away.

and tank Brahmastras to the face and beat Scathach? i doubt there is enough info available to give any good justification for how Ozy is superior to Cu Alter. hell, i doubt that Ozy is going to get wanked harder than a guy who is supposed to be equal to hercules and Arthur when they are all at their maximum power (and wouldnt being in Brittain give Arthur access to the spear, just as it would give Achilles his armour and Cu his castle?)

heck even base Cu i have i would have difficulty saying that he would just straight out lose to Ozy, Ozy is the guy that specializes in fighting a lot of people at the same time with arguable success in regards to how fast he accomplishes his kills vs Cu who specializes in killing individuals with greater certainty and can take on armies as well

Ozymandias is Gilgamesh/Karna level and it takes Stella+Excalibur to overwhelm a single Denderal Lightbulb. Should I mention that Arthur kind of shits on Artoria alone?

[fire_mountain_30]

Karna=Rama is stated in the story and also stated by multiple people in this very forum. also, do you have any other servant with healing abilities anywhere rivaling nightingale?

also, it still massively feels like your entire argument hinges on the logic that over the course of 1 chapter, Mash became stronger than Rama + America level Mash combined.

also, Lion King has more solid feats? maybe only defensively. Arash chose to end his own life after Lancelot nearly killed him and didnt kill or fight anyone else of note. heck, Fake Richard was so strong that even with the Lion King, youd had round table knights sacrificing themselves to kill him.

Cu alter beat Rama, tanked Brahmastras, brushed off Nero's reality marble power nerf, stabbed through Karna's armour and killed him, survived a Vasaki Shakti to the face (you can argue on how close to max power that was) and beat Scathach and that was all before he even got the grail

[8000]

Ozy didn't use the grail to amp himself, he just used it to summon Nitocris.

Ozy has far better feats and Noble Phantasms than Cu Alter based on evidence.

i doubt that Ozy is going to get wanked harder than a guy who is supposed to be equal to hercules and Arthur when they are all at their maximum power (and wouldnt being in Brittain give Arthur access to the spear, just as it would give Achilles his armour and Cu his castle?)

Why wouldn't he be? We've seen nothing of Servants with fame boosts that would put them on his level. Cu Alter doesn't even have his fame boost so I don't see why this matters.

heck even base Cu i have i would have difficulty saying that he would just straight out lose to Ozy, Ozy is the guy that specializes in fighting a lot of people at the same time with arguable success in regards to how fast he accomplishes his kills vs Cu who specializes in killing individuals with greater certainty and can take on armies as well

If it's inside the temple, Ozy could just stand there and let Cu tire himself out failing to harm him while Cu succumbs to poison.

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Scáthach vs. Sun-buffed Gawain

Gate of Skye or bust.