Originally Posted by Ronove
nothing on the NA version even hints at this, so i suppose that you can give me scans to prove this, no?
also, how am i overestimating Cu stabbing Karna? it is armour that is always active and protects his whole body. it aint gonna suddenly turn less durable just because he is going to get hit in the back
Isn't Rama's interlude expressly about how he's weaker than Karna/Arjuna because he's summoned in an inferior class, and at a younger age?
How potent is Nightingale's healing in combat? Why do you assume being able to heal someone would make you the strongest support servant?do you have any other servant with healing abilities anywhere rivaling nightingale?
That is not my entire argument. It's actually a minor one to dispute your harping on the final chapters in both singularities. I don't know how many times I have to say it. Also? Mashu learned the true name of her NP during that time, which is kind of a big deal as far as servant power-levels go. Lord Camelot gained a conceptual effect of never failing. That defense allowed her to block Rhon. Had she been the America version, that would have been game over for your party.also, it still massively feels like your entire argument hinges on the logic that over the course of 1 chapter, Mash became stronger than Rama + America level Mash combined.
The LK wasn't in that fight. Fake Richard is strong as hell for being a threat to that many A rank servants, so I don't know what your point is. Rhongoymniad nukes are better than anything we saw from Cu Alter. One-shotting Gawain with a fingertip worth of force, is better than anything we saw from Cu Alter. His only comparable showing is killing Karna and shredding Scathach's organs with his noble phantasms.also, Lion King has more solid feats? maybe only defensively. Arash chose to end his own life after Lancelot nearly killed him and didnt kill or fight anyone else of note. heck, Fake Richard was so strong that even with the Lion King, youd had round table knights sacrificing themselves to kill him.
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His mats. It says with a grail Cu Alter can surpass his Lancer/Caster class selves, which would be redundant if he was stronger without it.
Cu's divinity is effective against armor. What happens if Karna pays attention? He amplifies his durability with mana burst like against Balmung or counters with his own NP. Being able to one-shot armor Karna unawares is nothing I wouldn't expect from any powerful A+ NP. Much less GB that has a conceptual instant-kill effect, which makes the point of 90% damage reduction, moot.also, how am i overestimating Cu stabbing Karna? it is armour that is always active and protects his whole body. it aint gonna suddenly turn less durable just because he is going to get hit in the back
Last edited by Ronove; May 21st, 2018 at 06:37 PM.
Put it this way: Mashu becomes strong enough that early game her doesn't come close. Early game Mashu almost drops to one Excaliblast. Late game Mashu tanks an attack that would've wiped an army of top tier Servants right off the map.
His armour is just a 90% damage cut, it isn't as ridiculous as some others we've seen. Getting hit with 10x the amount of force needed to destroy his heart is gonna destroy his heart.
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congrats. by mentioning how much effort it took to overwhelm a single Dendara blast, you literally just debunked the notion that Ozy couldnt beat the LK or come close to it because of how a nearly dead Arash could beat back a blast from her, let alone a grail fueled Ozy.
you do relize that when someone mentions that they cant beat an enemy wielding an army, that they have to factor in how strong their respective armies are, right? do yiu think Ozy has anywhere as many strong servants on his side as LK?
and btw, Ozy's very summoning changed the landscape by summoning the dessert. the closest thing that the LK did was to summon the camelot replica.
so by actually taking into account the feats in Fragments, the notion that armies do matter and the sherr magnitude of his summoning comoared to her relevant summo ing feats, i fail to see how yiu can make the argument that she is WITHOUT ANY SHADOW OF A DOUBT superior to Ozy to begin with
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great
full context scans please
Sure. If you assume all of Rhongomyniad's blasts are at the same level of power.
And you can't really debunk what happens in the story when Ozy and Nitocris combined die to Rhongomyniad, without being able to land a scratch on the king. Ozy at this time fired 10 blasts of Dendera successively (shattering his saint graph in the process) just to take down her shield and then rammed his temple into the tower, only to fade away. He directly admits that she's stronger than him.
His profile
This is not even the mad warrior condition from when alive; he has been summoned as a different figure than a proper Berserker.
When receiving the backup from the Holy Grail, his strength surpasses even when in Lancer or Caster conditions.
Last edited by Ronove; May 21st, 2018 at 06:45 PM.
Cu's divinity is effective against armor. What happens if Karna pays attention? He amplifies his durability with mana burst like against Balmung or counters with his own NP. Being able to one-shot armor Karna unawares is nothing I wouldn't expect from any powerful A+ NP. Much less GB that has a conceptual instant-kill effect, which makes the point of 90% damage reduction, moot.[/QUOTE]
yeah, no. via how divinity works, if anyone is getting their abilities nerfed from a clash of divinities, it is Cu, not Karna, so thanks for further proving hiw impressive the feat is.
hu, no. the instant kill effect doesnt automatically take the armour abilities out of the picture. if the effect had even activated in the first place, Karna wouldnt have gotten back up. and the insta kill effect in no way relates to the piercing power of the spear
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His profile[/QUOTE]
thank you for not recognizing prose and jumping to conclusions. i can also take that sentence to say that Cu alter is weaker than Caster Cu. would you believe that to be the case?
At this point, just wait until you can read NA Camelot and draw your own conclusions
you seem to have already made them, but who knows, more information shouldnt hurt
?
Read his Extra profile. Cu's divinity has a specific effect of piercing through armor class defenses, including ones like Anti-purge. Of course Karna has his own defense against sun divinities as well, but that's besides the point.
Karna's armor is not actually armor. It does not provide a defense, it just mitigates damage he sustains by 90%. Any top noble phantasm will defeat him. Not unless he's boosting with mana burst. 100% chance of death is not disproven when Karna, the guy who has a record of not dying easily thanks to will power, dies anyway.the instant kill effect doesnt automatically take the armour abilities out of the picture. if the effect had even activated in the first place, Karna wouldnt have gotten back up. and the insta kill effect in no way relates to the piercing power of the spear
Feel free to make that extrapolation, it has nothing to do with me. The addition of the holy grail backup in his profile is to convey that he exceeds his other two classes with it. What is even the point if he was stronger without it? Bear in mind, this is about whether Cu Alter is stronger than the other classes. Without the grail, he could be equal, but he doesn't necessarily have to be weaker. That is your inference.thank you for not recognizing prose and jumping to conclusions. i can also take that sentence to say that Cu alter is weaker than Caster Cu. would you believe that to be the case?
Last edited by Ronove; May 21st, 2018 at 06:50 PM.
again, she has good defensive feats, which i admitted to. you are assuming that just because her defense is awesome, everything abiut her is just as awesome.
also, how many fights, grail relinquishings and decapitations did LK suffer before that willing and intended string of suicidal attacks, hmm?
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i have no issue saying that LK could win
i just thinkt that people are instantly putting her on a pedestal based on feats that i in no way see as a proper justification for doing just that.
if people had said "well, on the other hand this, on the other hand that" i wouod have been satisfied and not even intervened in the debate.
obviously i made the match because i thought the odds were rather even, after thinking abiut it for a bit
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pretty sure that reducing 90% the damage taken from a sword NP to the chest (strictly melee) alone would kill you, if yiu go by the manga, he has cuts on his face, so your logic contradicts the notion that he doesnt have a significant inherent durability besides the 90% reduction
Last edited by fire_mountain_30; May 21st, 2018 at 06:56 PM.
When she can one-shot A rank servants known for their durability with the equivalent of her fingers? Yes. When she's in the process of eradicating Tentyris despite Nitocris' mirror protecting it? Yes. When Gawain's reaction to having Sun Galatine swiped away with King Hassan's sword is "You're equal to the Lion King??" Hell yes.
But as mentioned, you clearly have no intention of being convinced. Someone who Ozy doesn't want to pick a fight with despite multiple servants at his disposal, and only fully consents to an allience when a grand got involved, is not losing to Cu Alter.
and yiu again arent readind my points.
Gawain wasnt sun buffed in that scene and willingly took the attack, which she took a moment to charge up and she did it with her spear directly.
Ozy? several servants at his disposal? did Nitocris multiply?
hell, if yiu are mentioning the Chaldea party of Mash and Da Vinci, do yiu seriously think that they compare to the round table buffed with Gifts?
and again, Ozy cares for his people. you keep acting like that isnt a factor
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also, "Sun Galantine"? re-read that again. yes he was sun buffed but it was a regular melee sword swing. you know who else can deal with that? Lu Bu, who Lancer Cu can take on
The fact that he's empowered throughout America is right there in the text. Medb had the grail and her wish for Cu to be as he was empowered him. She dies, they point out his power diminishes because the original wisher is gone, he's weakened enough that they can take him.
少し、雰囲気が違う……？
……冬木で出会ったときのような……。
わずかだが、纏っていた魔力も弱まっている。
恐らく、クー・フーリンが王であることを願った者が[r]消滅したことで、時代の修正力が強まったんだ。
He seems a little different?
...He's more like when we met in Fuyuki...
Just slightly, but the magical energy surrounding him has weakened.
The era's ability to correct itself probably strengthened, because the one who wished Cú Chulainn to be king vanished.
Localizationing stuff
I'm not sure. Doing the math, an A+ NP would get reduced to an E rank one, which is about a C rank regular attack.Karna's armor is not actually armor. It does not provide a defense, it just mitigates damage he sustains by 90%. Any top noble phantasm will defeat him.
On paper, at least. I don't know how well the armor fares in practice.
Why does Gawain have to be sunbuffed? Base Gawain is still the most durable of the KoTR and an A rank servant. And it's a bit ironic that you're arguing he just stood there and took it, then press on about how impressive Cu Alter is for getting a free shot on Karna.
There was no charge up. The attack LK used on Gawain was described as impossibly casual.
Ozy never gave a damn about the round table and he certainly is not lacking in numbers when his NP affords him countless divine beasts. His problem was always Lion King. Chaldea's army of servants consisted of Mashu, Bedivere, Lancelot, and the Hassans.Ozy? several servants at his disposal? did Nitocris multiply? hell, if yiu are mentioning the Chaldea party of Mash and Da Vinci, do yiu seriously think that they compare to the round table buffed with Gifts?
It wasn't. He didn't want to face the LK because it ensured his destruction. Once again. Tell him KH is with you and he's all game and would have never resisted Chaldea's offer in the first place. He wanted fire power.and again, Ozy cares for his people. you keep acting like that isnt a factor
No. It was Galatine. I'm starting to wonder if you at least read the translations.also, "Sun Galantine"? re-read that again. yes he was sun buffed but it was a regular melee sword swing. you know who else can deal with that? Lu Bu, who Lancer Cu can take on
Show me Lu Bu taking Galatine and smacking it with his spear. Then I'll concede you have an argument.
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Karna's armor is not Armor of Fafnir. Numbers don't work here. Take for example. Rider's Bellephoron lost 90% of its bite, but still defeated Saber Alter (A rank END with regen) from what I remember.
Last edited by Ronove; May 21st, 2018 at 07:15 PM.
Assume she can't or won't use Gate of Skye. Certainly she at the very least puts up a good fight?
Is this perma buff gawain or does his buff run out?
Depends on how well Scat can play keep away. Or if Wisdom of the abyss can give her a skill to bypass his durability.
Would side with Gawain more often than not though.
I'm not sure she's done anything to take on Gawain. Her Gae Bolg is less useful than Cu's would be in this situation. She could freeze him if she lands a hit (not sure if she needs to pierce the target to freeze them), but Gawain would still have a big advantage in melee.
About nightingale
She needs to actually operates on you with scalpel and shit to heal you, hers isnt a healing magic
Bit hard to do that midbattle.
Then again she could just NP, but i reckon thats not a thing she can do repeatedly
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Also why are people saying Grailed Ozy, thats never a thing lol beyond amonra
Last edited by castor212; May 21st, 2018 at 07:33 PM.
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Currently (like, actually) finishing Apocrypha 3
Ozy's like Gil, Grailing him probably wouldn't do a damn thing to his battle strength. Except give him a fuckton more mana to spam, but the guy gets a ton of overkill anyway.
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