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Thread: Badass Versus Thread

  1. #118561
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Dude, you wrote "outlier" yourself...

    The Kingu example here is "when X which is to anti Y get used against a super outlier Y then X can still get fucked but you can't just call it shitty"

    - - - Updated - - -

    You are pretty much discrediting yourself
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  2. #118562
    まおーさまのカワイイツンデレ睡魔 Mizukume's Avatar
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    Reread my comment 1000 more times until you get it that the example discredit YOUR logic, you're just wasting my time going in circles.


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  3. #118563
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mizukume View Post
    No. A very sensible example to counter your nonsense logic, like I always do.
    How is it nonsense if you have previously agreed with me in past discussions?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizukume View Post
    Reread my comment 1000 more times until you get it that the example discredit YOUR logic, you're just wasting my time going in circles.
    I am sure you read yours as many times as you tell me to. I am sure it makes for a great echo chamber

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizukume View Post
    Reread my comment 1000 more times until you get it that the example discredit YOUR logic, you're just wasting my time going in circles.

    You are the one that jumped into the conversation in the first place, a habit you yourself have admited to. You are the one going out of your way to waste your own time.

    I am fine discussing the topic with other people. Your input is not necessary if you dont feel up to it
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  4. #118564
    まおーさまのカワイイツンデレ睡魔 Mizukume's Avatar
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    Edit: Dude, your claim doesn't have a "not counting OP chars" clause or "non damaging NPs only" which means my example is valid, next time add that then you can call me out. Or if that was what you initially meant, write that. But sure if you want another, take a look at how many times an anti-unit NP failed to kill a unit, or how vast the definition of a unit is.

    But you know what, don't reply, I'll let the others talk instead because I already said enough of what others already said.
    Last edited by Mizukume; August 10th, 2018 at 07:02 AM.


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  5. #118565
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    Hell, the very first Noble Phantasm we see, Gáe Bolg, was an Anti-Unit attack which failed to kill Saber.
    My fanfics:
    The Gift (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot)
    - A duel between Cú Chulainn and Scáthach.
    Passion Acknowledged (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot) (Lemon) - Shirou and Shinji finally acknowledge their feelings.
    He Was a Good King (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot) - A short exploration of Beowulf's character as a hero and a king.

  6. #118566
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpoonyViking View Post
    Hell, the very first Noble Phantasm we see, Gáe Bolg, was an Anti-Unit attack which failed to kill Saber.
    She is an absolute unit.
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  7. #118567
    HSTP 500 Internal S ervant  Error aldeayeah's Avatar
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    It even failed to kill Lancer himself in a timely manner!
    As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero.

  8. #118568
    Reminder that Herk flexed his muscly muscles and broke Gil's chain, it's not new that top dog divine beings can break the chains

    Besides, every NP is different, works different and has a different end result

  9. #118569
    Εις οιωνός άριστος, αμύνεσθαι περί πάτρις Deathhappens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    Iskander’s bulls are both divine beasts and the lightning they run on is Zeus so don’t go blaming FGO for the power creep
    Hell even before FSN came out, Nrvnqsr was spitting out dragons and crab gods so maybe the real lesson here is just that Medusa is shit
    Hmm, you're right.
    ...[REDACTED] is a [REDACTED] then?
    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    It's like with centaur girls, you're fucking a horse. Sure the human part is the one that moans but your dick is in the horse, no way around it.
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    boytoy angst > fulfilling life of misanthropic extremist environmentalism
    Once and always and nevermore.

  10. #118570
    吸血鬼 Vampire AAM1232's Avatar
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    Anti-X NPs meant to target/affect X =/= X gets destroyed/captured/whatever super hard all the time. Seems easy enough to understand.

  11. #118571
    Εις οιωνός άριστος, αμύνεσθαι περί πάτρις Deathhappens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mizukume View Post
    Yes I did, and he is talking about the same thing I did. Divinity as a skill (what you've been babbling about the entire time) is different from Divinity as a trait, but they are grouped into the same thing in FGO gameplay because both indicate your Divine status.

    Divinity as a skill indicates "how much of a divine spirit you are", and if you are a monster this might affect your rank as a Divine Spirit (but that did not happen to Tamamo, her Divinity is still A despite most of it already being sealed due to being a servant + self seal, her being considered an anti-hero Monster like Medusa didn't do shit to lower her rank). Divinity as a trait is "you are considered Divine". The chain of heaven works as long as you are considered "Divine", meaning it works on both types of Divinity.

    Just look at that list, even Lahmu being born from Tiamat is considered divine, as it is considered part of her body - the body of a God, a divine as fuck being. Bull of heaven, sphinx are divine beasts, Ereshkigal is goddess who can turn huge ghost form, Greater Grail is ??? and Mitsuhide Mara despite taking the demon king of the 6th heaven role is also divine. As long as you are divine you are targets of anti-divine NPs, not that you must have a skill that give you a rating of how high you might be as a divine spirit.
    Not gonna butt in that conversation, but what are the kanji used for each "divinity"? Or are they the same in both cases?
    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    It's like with centaur girls, you're fucking a horse. Sure the human part is the one that moans but your dick is in the horse, no way around it.
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    boytoy angst > fulfilling life of misanthropic extremist environmentalism
    Once and always and nevermore.

  12. #118572
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mizukume View Post
    Edit: Dude, your claim doesn't have a "not counting OP chars" clause or "non damaging NPs only" which means my example is valid, next time add that then you can call me out. Or if that was what you initially meant, write that.
    i will reply with greater ammounts of source material and arguments in a few hours.

    friend, this happens EVERY TIME we discuss NPs and i make a power generalization. i mean very straightforward KABBOOM! NPs and i show no intention of meaning these other sorts of NPs and yiu start thinking i did. every time i think the context is obvious, you think otherwise and then we have to do this song and dance for several comments and i get the feeling said dance isnt even good for your health because you seem so heated about things that it begins to make me feel concern
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  13. #118573
    まおーさまのカワイイツンデレ睡魔 Mizukume's Avatar
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    I'm more concern about your reading comprehension for the source materials and failure to express your ideas that not just me but the rest of ppl here also noticed, don't act like I'm the only one having problems with it, just look at how many ppl agree with me on this, stop bullshitting and lying to yourself.

    And the fact that you generalize power is where we disagree all the time. I don't and I never generalize power like you do because that is the shittiest type of argument and logic you can do for a series like this, which is why we kept clashing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And no I don't need anymore of your "arguments" that conforms to your generalization of power that I know for sure I won't agree with, don't waste your time, use it to do something else or reply to the ppl above, because they are saying exactly what I've been saying.
    Last edited by Mizukume; August 10th, 2018 at 09:09 AM.


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  14. #118574
    吸血鬼 Vampire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurvan View Post
    Reminder that Herk flexed his muscly muscles and broke Gil's chain, it's not new that top dog divine beings can break the chains

    Besides, every NP is different, works different and has a different end result
    This is more specific to Herk than anyone else since he was doing one of those impossible things again. He actually broke the rules multiple times in that fight.

  15. #118575
    I mean, sure the man overcoming impossibilities doing the impossible isn't strange

    but considering this
    The Kingu example here is "when X which is to anti Y get used against a super outlier Y then X can still get fucked
    mentioning it is double spot on since its A an outlier and B the anti divine chains being used against divine

    not sure what your point is

  16. #118576
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    ok, i was going to mention first why i think using Enuma Elish as a default example is bad policy, but let's skip that.

    what i was trying to say originally is that in "vaccum" conditions, as in, no OP opposing targets and nothing blocking them, they would have the AoE to take out the things they are designated to take out. sure, not all armies are the same size, not all countries are the same size and not all planets are the same size, but that they could take out things of these designations of at least some size. so my argument would be closer in nature to "well, if Brahmastra Kundala cant take out the USA, at least it can take out switzerland".

    and i think using Gae Bolg is a bad example of how NPs fail to kill their designated target for 2 reasons.

    1- gae bolg kills through a stab. even if it didnt hit the heart, it still did the level of damage that is supposed to, which is what i have argued all along. my interest is in damage dealt and AoE range.

    2- saber says in Zero against Diarmuid that NPs can come in the form of instantly deciding a match or helping to overturn the match. a lot of anti-units are the less decisive type and when they arent, they failt because the target can counter them, but that isnt the NP's fault. it would have done exactly what it was supposed to do if it wasnt actively countered or if it didnt target some magical beast too powerful for is paygrade. Going back to Brahmastra Kundala, a country full of muggles and with no anti-missile capabilities would present neither of the two mentioned hindrances. a country is its target and there is nothing there to openly counter it. its destruction should be absolute until as far as its AoE allows it.

    and honestly, i would argue that NPs are more powerful in truth and have greater AoE than their designation implies.

    for example, Excalibur is anti-fortress, but in HA, it didnt stop at just one building. it kept mowing down the other parts of the city that it reached

    a weakened Caladbolg destroyed an island (though that also took into account some unique properties of the NP)

    Tomoe Gouzen (this one i only know from 3rd party accounts), destroyed a large tower with an anti-unit NP.

    in the Apo manga, Frank's Blasted tree was gigantic. it dwarfed the Hanging Gardens in the distance.

    in the Strange Fake manga, the enuma elish clashes were absolutely titanic when observed from outher space and i dont even think Anti-World would normally even imply that level of power.

    in America, Tesla (take it with a grain of salt because the dude is drunk on his own hype most of the time) even said that if he could fully unleash his NP, he could destroy North America and nothing in his NP sheet would even imply that.

    fell free to mention other instances where NPs hit the landscape without reserve.

    also, going back to Tiamat for a second, her Monstruous Strenght mentions that her strenght is on par with a Titan. do you think this is a refference to the white titan?
    Last edited by fire_mountain_30; August 10th, 2018 at 03:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  17. #118577
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    also, going back to Tiamat for a second, her Monstruous Strenght mentions that her strenght is on par with a Titan. do you think this is a refference to the white titan?
    It says her strength makes her on par with a giant not titan.
    This is almost of the highest grade. Having the black mud as her body and materializing with a draconic body, Tiamat’s Strength is like that of a giant’s.
    In these cases
    Titan = 巨神
    Giant = 巨人
    Xseed was actually pretty smart in their translation of that because its 巨神 which literally is like huge god. Titan captures all three meanings, titanic = big, titan = gods, titans in hercules = huge gods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Canon View Post
    On You's tombstone it will read
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    That's exaggerating my point.

  18. #118578
    吸血鬼 Vampire Bugs's Avatar
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  19. #118579
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurvan View Post
    Napoleon vs Heracles in doing the impossible
    Iskandar should also be included in this because his Ionian Hetairoi was explicitly stated as him accomplishing the impossible with his comrades.

  20. #118580
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    also, i believe this whole thing started when someone asked how strong Lion King was and that she was lacking feats.

    a weakened, partially released Rhon hollowed a mountain in Case Files volume 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

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