Least favourite servant?

[warellis]

im usually not very fond on the Tsun archetype. Rin is an exception , but she is actually what the word was supossed to mean, harsh on the outside, but carin deeo down. Usuallys just .. psycho who constantly hurts the MC physically but still wants to get on his pants so badly."

I thought Rin is what VNDB calls a "modern tsundere" because they still have that harsh on the outside aspect even after they get into a relationship with the protagonist, while in earlier stories, tsunderes often completely mellowed out pretty much by the time both they and the person they're with are together?

Though considering how Rin is in that phone call in Ataraxia, I guess she does mellow down?

Louise is subhuman garbage.

Bring it.

Considering she had to deal with stuff like Saito attempting to sexually molest/rape her in the beginning, I don't have a problem with her being an asshole to him. At least early on.

As for Servants, anyone feel Elizabeth is sort of meh? And the joke characters like Heroine X arr also not that great.

With Liz, I sort of feel it's the glossing over of her unsavory aspects. But then, that was the same with Nero when they started worshipping her in Extella.

[Kotonoha]

Something something CCC.

[King of Padoru]

As for Servants, anyone feel Elizabeth is sort of meh? And the joke characters like Heroine X arr also not that great.

With Liz, I sort of feel it's the glossing over of her unsavory aspects. But then, that was the same with Nero when they started worshipping her in Extella.

Completely agree about Elizabeth.

[Wandering Swordwoman]

Only Okita and Nobu are great

[warellis]

Another Servant design I don't like is Alter's Rider design. What was the point of sticking maid outfit stuff on her when she already is in a bikini?

Archer Artoria & Rider Mordred both are better designed for simply being in swimsuits and not having unnecessary bits added on.

[King of Padoru]

This is why.

[warellis]

This is why.

Yeah but that is Alter in a full maid outfit. Not some sort of weird hybrid of bikini & maid.

[King of Padoru]

Think of it as DW wanting to release both Maid Alter and Swimsuit Alter and one guy saying "Why not maid+swimsuit?"

[asterism42]

Something something CCC.

Even after CCC I still don't really like her.

[Kotonoha]

I meant more that "glossing over her unsavoury aspects" is usually the impression of people who skipped CCC rather than that CCC should make people like her, but everyone is sick of me being a broken record on that topic so yeah

[Canon]

You know what you must do

[Reign]

What will come out first, CCC translation or TsukiRe?

CCC had a progress update last December

[Deathhappens]

I liked Elizabeth even without reading CCC. And no,it's not just because she's cute. Her portrayal in Extella was excellent, both as comic relief and (sort of) tragic heroine.

On the other hand,I really disliked the addition of Carmilla for the same reason. Maybe it was just me misunderstanding things, but going by Extella Liz was a literal Innocent Monster; she'd done those horrifying things because nobody in her life bothered or cared to explain why she shouldn't. Come GO, "nope guys, Liz is innocent, Carmilla is the big bad future self who did it all".

[King of Padoru]

Carmilla's existence doesn't imply Liz did nothing wrong. Their relation is the same as the one between mad Dracula Vlad from Extra and impaler hero Vlad from Apocrypha: historical version vs fictional version

[Iceblade44]

Not really in the context of Historical and Fictional, but that they are different aspects of the same person. Elizabeth being her naive self who doesn't grasp what she does is evil and thus see no problem with it, Carmilla on the other hand does recognize that she did some fucked up shit, acknowledges it, and goes along for the ride embracing it because that's the only thing she knows to do. So the difference between them originally would be ignorance vs resignation. Of course thanks to character development Liz has come to realize her errors but that is what they would originally represent.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

They're Idol Emiya.

[Deathhappens]

According to her profile:
"The countess of blood that became the model for the vampire Carmilla... or it should have been, but what was summoned as a Servant was her 14 year-old self from before committing any crimes. A sweet-type Servant who calls herself an idol. Noble, high-handed, cruel, merciless - she displays inhuman manners just like in legends. "

Now maybe this is the same thing written differently, but to me it seems to say that THIS Liz hasn't yet commited the atrocities assigned to her name, and in fact her character arc in Orleans was all about her rejecting that version of herself and vowing not to end up like that.

That doesn't mesh with the Elizabeth who did commit those crimes, accepted the blame and tried to atone for them in Extella. (And failed and backslid in her evil ways for a while, but that just made her story more interesting).


edit: this is just my opinion though.

[You]

Carmilla's existence doesn't imply Liz did nothing wrong. Their relation is the same as the one between mad Dracula Vlad from Extra and impaler hero Vlad from Apocrypha: historical version vs fictional version

Well no the vlads aren't historical vs fictional at all
and neither is carmilla and eli

- - - Updated - - -

According to her profile:
"The countess of blood that became the model for the vampire Carmilla... or it should have been, but what was summoned as a Servant was her 14 year-old self from before committing any crimes. A sweet-type Servant who calls herself an idol. Noble, high-handed, cruel, merciless - she displays inhuman manners just like in legends. "

Now maybe this is the same thing written differently, but to me it seems to say that THIS Liz hasn't yet commited the atrocities assigned to her name, and in fact her character arc in Orleans was all about her rejecting that version of herself and vowing not to end up like that.

That doesn't mesh with the Elizabeth who did commit those crimes, accepted the blame and tried to atone for them in Extella. (And failed and backslid in her evil ways for a while, but that just made her story more interesting).

Even though the personality of the Servant is Liz before she committed the crimes, she's a Heroic Spirit, a record, so Elizabeth Bathory has committed the crimes.

The following is an inside story. Towards the end of CCC Rin talks about how “Lancer’s karma is decreasing.” However this is not because she has committed any good deeds.

Simply, the actions of Elizabeth (who is working hard for the protagonist) end up saving more people than she killed when she was alive. Her change in karma is due to the judgment of the emotionless Moon Cell.

In the same way that Fionn has the personality before he betrayed Diarmuid but understands that he did. Or Medea Lily etc.

[Bird of Hermes]

Three different kinds for me.

Wu Zetian, she was a famous badass older lady but they made her a scantily clad loli which is seven different kinds of awful.

Blackbeard is actually an ingenious look at particular archetypes as others have said before me but he's a weeb and someone's gotta gotta steal his lunch money and shove him in a locker. May as well be me.

I like Nero but I wish the narrative would stop going out of its way to heap unending praise. Letting her have faults and acknowledging them would make her a better character.

[Spartacus]

Check out Drake's new interlude, Blackbeard is very cool there.