Fate/Grand Order: Babylonia Anime

[Stevethepi]

I stated that I thought Tiamat's motivations as they are touched on within GO as I find them a bit too human. You countered that by pointing out that many animals show the same sort of thought process. This is kinda of irrelevant to what I was trying to say as but "too human" I more so meant with human understanding. Tiamat is meant to a be literally 4 dimensional god that is literally shown as a tide so Tiamat showing the ability for reason and compromise feels slightly and undermines the sense of dread I like about Bablyon. From my understanding you should be ESOL so that mistake is an entirely fair one to make and I should have clarified after you responded however I felt that at the point I had seen it doing so would've been a minor necro so I apologize.

I didn't mean to imply that expecting the Tiamat stuff was silly its just that a little bit up in the thread you stated that the Tiamat stuff is what makes Babylon great and personally I find that a bit silly as it goes largely unstated with Babylon itself. Additionally I don't mean to imply that your opinion is in any way toxic its just that in a lot of your responses in this thread you come off as talking down to the users who disagree with you. You often do make genuinely interesting observations within the comments but the hostile way you make them is just simply quite toxic.

[Lily Emilio]

Tiamat is meant to a be literally 4 dimensional god that is literally shown as a tide so Tiamat showing the ability for reason and compromise feels slightly and undermines the sense of dread I like about Bablyon.

Except that you cannot reason nor compromise with her. Even the dream scene is "the waves speak to you". Her conflicting actions = result of conflicting instincts.

I didn't mean to imply that expecting the Tiamat stuff was silly its just that a little bit up in the thread you stated that the Tiamat stuff is what makes Babylon great and personally I find that a bit silly as it goes largely unstated with Babylon itself. Additionally I don't mean to imply that your opinion is in any way toxic its just that in a lot of your responses in this thread you come off as talking down to the users who disagree with you. You often do make genuinely interesting observations within the comments but the hostile way you make them is just simply quite toxic.

Maybe look at the way you address me first b4 calling me toxic. You basically try to dismiss my points by saying silly and that I'm just being toxic.

And I never said Tiamat is the ONLY end all be all thing that makes Babylonia great, go read my post again lol, I said the theme(s) that she represents is. Heck when this show is over you can expect me to state my thoughts on what made the story good, from both ingame and anime POV.

[Stevethepi]

Tiamat in particular represents regression, the wish of redoing things over (in the form of wanting to be mother of humanity again). Wanting to redo something is a very human thing, yet pushed to the extreme with Tiamat.

How is Tiamat's characterization relevant to this at all. Literally every element of this theme is entirely conveyed but her actions which are completely present in the anime as it is at present.

You basically try to dismiss my points by saying silly and that I'm just being toxic.

I literally said "You often do make genuinely interesting observations within the comments" how is that me dismissing your points as silly. I refereed to the idea that Tiamat is what makes Babylon great as silly because I was only addressing the point in the context of the overly aggressive way you are responding to others opinions and didn't think a longer reaction to it was relevant.

Additionally a lot of theme the Tiamat stuff does deal with is dealt with in different places in the story. You could probably straight up cut Tiamat in her entirety and most of her themes would still be present even if somewhat weaker.

also why does GO act like Tiamat has anything to do with the creation of humanity Reee

[bassgs435]

To the question of why "GO acts like Tiamat has anything to do with the creation of humanity", I'd blame Higashide. The way Tiamat is treated here is like Nasu's more developed take (applied to Fate) of what Higashide did with Tiamat on the final route of Tokyo Babel

[Astroprogs]

I'm honestly not worried. They rushed through the story a lot starting from episode 15 and they no longer follow the one chapter per episode rule.

This leaves them with relatively more free runtime than they need to cover the rest of the story. Unless they go ham on the action scenes, there's time to still explore Tiamat's characterization.

Today's episode PV shows that it'll mostly be a talking episode, so we may actually get the Tiamat talk today, who knows.

[Saber Alter]

They didn't have the Tiamat talk today, episode ended right after Piedra Del Sol and Gorgon's arrival. Episode was fast-paced, but didn't feel super rushed like 15 for some reason. They streamlined the Leonidas talk too.

Gil's speech was SOOO good, and I'm so happy Tiamat was mostly 2d this time (all close-ups of her face were 2d, and there were actually some shots of her body that were fully 2d as well, which really surprised me after how they handled her last week.) Instead of doing the Ushi and Benkei fight first and then Quetz's NP, the show made those two scenes happen at once. Definitely the best animated episode so far (the direction was really solid too, Onsen knows what he's doing.)

I expected them to emphasize the Gil and Kingu scene more than they did, but it was executed decently, so I don't mind really.

[Lily Emilio]

How is Tiamat's characterization relevant to this at all. Literally every element of this theme is entirely conveyed but her actions which are completely present in the anime as it is at present.

Show me which part of the show explained why she sealed herself. You can't.
Show me which part of the show explained that HUMANS are actually what SHE fears and is actually acting on survival instinct. You can't.
Show me which part of the show explained that Tiamat is also the patron of humanity and that is her predetermined role which led to her seal. You can't.
Show me which part of the show explained that the reason Tiamat is a Beast representing humanity despite being a monstrosity that she is. You can't.
Show me which part of the show explained how Tiamat also represents the separation of humanity and gods that Gil is leading. You can't.
Show me which part of the show explained ANYTHING that Tiamat is acting on CONFLICTING INSTINCTS. You can't.

You can't, period. Because the show never present any of that. She is just a monster you need to kill in the anime while in the game HUMANS are those who she is fighting to not get killed. Stop trying to defend the show's incompetence with your utter failure to understand anything presented in the source material in this matter.

I literally said "You often do make genuinely interesting observations within the comments" how is that me dismissing your points as silly. I refereed to the idea that Tiamat is what makes Babylon great as silly because I was only addressing the point in the context of the overly aggressive way you are responding to others opinions and didn't think a longer reaction to it was relevant.

Your first comment on the matter did not say anything good about me but a jab that was obviously directed at me but you did not specify for w/e reason, did you forget what you wrote?

Additionally a lot of theme the Tiamat stuff does deal with is dealt with in different places in the story. You could probably straight up cut Tiamat in her entirety and most of her themes would still be present even if somewhat weaker.

How is cutting Tiamat show that humanity must move from the "mother" to advance, which is a nod to how moving away from the early Matrilineality system helped humanity to advance? That's just silly.
How is cutting Tiamat show that she is completely different from the other tsun/dere/lovestruck/silly goddesses that mr harem protag can flex his charm to recruit, when she is the biggest surprise in the story - one who you cannot use TALK NO JUTSU on? That's just silly.
How is cutting Tiamat show that Gilgamesh out of all people will prioritize the safely of his own people than his own ass, when all of the other threats prior to Tiamat could be dealt with by Talk no Jutsu and help of some servants? That's just silly.
How is cutting Tiamat show that the big bad of the entire plot is flexing his maximum effort - by summoning a fellow Beast - to take this final frontier of humanity down? That's just silly.
How is cutting Tiamat show that the situation is no joke even for the OP characters within the story? That's just silly.
How is cutting Tiamat show that Beasts, which Goetia is one of, are extremes of humanity yet absolutely inhuman, which also acts as the most simple Beast with the most simple concept to set the groundwork for all other Beasts? That's just silly.
Cutting Tiamat is cutting majority of the MOTIVATIONS for Gil and majority of the cast to team together, to abandon their differences, to unite under one single banner. Cutting the Beast whose purpose is to represent the class in the most basic sense is cutting why Babylonia happened in the first place. All of what you said is just silly.

Also it seems you also ignore the whole thing about the game saying life is born from Nammu. Nammu is proto Tiamat in Sumerian myth, whose role was swapped out and replaced by a more antagonistic Tiamat in Babylonian myth. There's a reason Gil said "The beast of disaster who called herself Tiamat" and "Tiamat or goddess is just false titles, she is Beast II".

When information is provided to you, you keep saying why is it relevant. But perhaps you should ask yourself why are you trying so hard to dismiss its relevance. Is it because you're defending the show, or is it because you just hate her so much you refuse to accept anything that gives her characterization. In either cases, even going by just basic story writing rules, no sane writer would ignore characterization of the villain, especially that this villain is the extreme take on Dark Sakura in FSN, a character that Nasu is really fond of. No matter how many bullshit reasons you try to say (which you did not anw, you only say things without a single piece of proof that all worked well), it will not change the fact that the main antagonist of the show and the driving force for every character cannot be ignored nor be lumped with stupid comedy moments that you might prefer.

Now if you have nothing but weak excuses like "i don't think it's relevant" and "i like when she's just a big boss to beat" to defend the failure of the adaptation on the source, then I see no purpose of trying to talk to you more.

[noname14]

I imagine Celestial Hill was an actual hill instead of a building...

[Lily Emilio]

Just watched the ep. Gil's speech was hype and his scene with Kingu was good.

Not happy with how Benkei and Ushi went out cuz I really wanted to see how his broken OP NP would look like animated. But they turned Quetz's sun bomb into some DBZ shits which is fucking awesome. They also seem to be using it to crack Tiamat's horn which will open way for Gorgon to break it in the next ep. Visuals in this ep overall are great but I still notice some weird faces, but the fighting scenes made up for it (mostly). And now MC is out of CS.

They also delivered on what that steve guy liked about the colossal beast that Tiamat is, and kinda cool to show how her Nega Genesis barrier looks like...maybe. That shot on Tiamat's crotch when she falls down tho.

Overall, I enjoyed the episode. Curious to see how they show Gorgon deal with the situation next ep, which will arrive in 2 weeks.

[mami-kouga]

Quetzalcoatl went out so beautifully.

I can't wait to be disappointed by this three episodes from now.

Also holy shot, there are only 3 episodes left

[Aozaki-desu]

Ok this was literally perfect
maybe prev ep really was a fluke and theyll clean it up for the bds

[mami-kouga]

Ok this was literally perfect
maybe prev ep really was a fluke and theyll clean it up for the bds

I saw someone on reddit mention that they think the staff conceived Tiamat's model with the chaos tide in mind, hence why the gloomy atmosphere makes her look so much more impressive. In broad daylight though. The model's rough spots are obvious, which honestly makes sense.

There's also still following the basic principal of "2D for close ups and 3D for farshots", though last episode had some exceptions to that

[Aozaki-desu]

Tbh all they need is to draw a bunch of minimally animated closeups and replace the frames with unobscured model with animated frames
LIKE THIS EPISODE DID
they could theoretically do it, its not completely unreasonable

[Reign]

Good fuckin episode. I loved the mood in the first half, everyone talking before the final battle is one of my favorite tropes. The second half was awesome as their fight scenes always are, and I liked how it being on the backs of Quetz's moutns made it different from the rest. The two scenes I was looking forward to most, Kingu with Gil and Ushi vs Benkei, were both super well done. Tiamat's model even looks better here, probably from the lighting.Prover feels almost like Ana's theme now that it's been used twice in big scenes of hers.

[eddyak]

Holy shit that was a hype as fuck episode. Quetz breaks out the badass, Gudao shows off those brass balls, Benkei mans the fuck up, Tiamat is properly intimidating.

[weeblord]

absolute god tier episode

Gil speech = hype
Roman x da vinci moment = cute
onsen's ikemen chins = improve the chara designs and theyre a shitload more expressive than usual. So many great faces.
Tiamat = great and imposing, talk about a redemption arc kek
Gudatrash = better than than usual, both anime and game. just doing small things in his power like decisive well timed CS and the lmfao moment where he kicks the dinosaur are imo so much better than hollow, substanceless circus tricks like jumping off the pyramid.
Mash flying bulldozer = great.
Benkei swinging from pteradactyls = even greater
Quetz = absolute greatest. goated supersaiyan fire slamdunk too lit. Those insane effects, those awesome faces, too good.
ED starting to play before the ep ends should be required for all anime, so kino

[Reign]

ED starting to play before the ep ends should be required for all anime, so kino

I love it every time an anime does this. It's never fails.

[mami-kouga]

I just found out that this episode's script writer was Sakurai. I really wonder just how good last encore could have been now with more episodes and Hakuno not having a dead fish personality now

- - - Updated - - -

Also has this episode assuaged any fears of how the final fight against Tiamat will be?

[weeblord]

for how strong the direction in this episode was, its hard to believe that this was Onsens first time doing ep storyboards. hes famous as a new school super sakuga man, but i guess he can now add up and coming director prodigy on his cv too

[DTTS]

Aw, they cut Gil talking about how after returning from his midlife crisis of searching for immortality the only one remaining in Uruk was Siduri so she could yell at him for being a selfish idiot.

Nitpick aside, that was amazing. Now to rewatch it a bunch of times so I can form an actual opinion