cute
cute
Ok this is easily the best episode yet hands down. Hooo boy i was grinning the whole way through. They even managed to use the CG for tiamat way better than last episode.
My one complain is that i wish we could've seen benkei's NP, because even in game it looked nice to me, so i was curious on how it would've been.
"An ideal is only an ideal after all. As long as you embrace that ideal, the friction with reality will continue to increase. So you will someday face reality and will have to pay for your compromises"
So my friend who is kaiju genre fan pointed out how a lot of the shots of Tiamat in the fog, the glow on her "wings" gives proper kaiju vibes that they use in a lot of kaiju films and the shot of her wings reminds him of Mothra assisting Godzilla, only that in this case the kaiju is a combination of both. That's pretty cool tbh.
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I was expecting 500 monks swarming the scene, taking all Ushis and Lahmus within the area to nirvana. But having Quetz taking them all at once is good enough to me. Poor Benkei tho he never ever get any big role.Originally Posted by Sandstorm77
Liked how, visually speaking, Quetz vs Tiamat was a reenactment of Gae Bolg vs Rho Aias.
I don't know how to feel about the episode.
The Leonidas talk was cut short and Benkei didn't get his exorcism moment.
Yet I feel bad for thinking this since it was an amazing episode overall
Those Buddhism NPs tend to be hard to understand by only reading them, so I wish I can witness it visually.
cool EP tho
You can discussThe OG RequiemConQUEST and other Quests in Discord (disc is much more active here).
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^probably what cloverworks were thinking when they decided to skip it
It's just kinda sad that benkei will be the only servant to appear and not to get to show his NP. The way he fought probably actually showed his determination better, but it's still a shame.
"An ideal is only an ideal after all. As long as you embrace that ideal, the friction with reality will continue to increase. So you will someday face reality and will have to pay for your compromises"
You know what that's fair
Zegapain was literally all about playing up the ending theme for the "oh shit" moment to get you jammed for the next ep, our club both dreaded and loved when it started when we watched it.
Also, this ep was very nice. Quetz love forever. I am thankful when a show really hits home that hype feeling for a character's big moment.
I mean to start why is that thematically relevant to what Babylonia is saying. But more importantly if the gods fearing humans is meant to be a larger theme in Babylonia the Gorgon stuff absolutely does deal with that
Why is this relevant thematically?
Episode 15 10:00-~10:28, Episode 15 14:54-~16:00,
Show me which part of the show explained how Tiamat also represents the separation of humanity and gods that Gil is leading. You can't.[/QUOTE]
I don't think is even established in the game by this point
Why is this thematically relevant to any of the themes you're referring too.
My first comment was complaining about the toxic tone the conversation was having. While you were a significant figure in the conversation being that I was actually more so referring to Wander_swordsman. I don't think pointing out that someone that someone is being needlessly hostile and aggressive needs to be prefaced with compliments. Given that I've been gish-galloped into arguing about whether Tiamat's portrayal in the anime is any good evidently that part of my comment was relevant so I apologize.
The show still deals with gods and moving away from theme in the earlier sections of the show. If the story did only present its major themes in the final third that would be a significant failure of the work. The idea humanity needs to move away from its mother to advance is still present in the whole Ur subplot. I'll admit I don't see how the early Matrilineality stuff is ever dealt with prior but that seems alot more a personally interpretation then definitively what Babylon was saying.
I'm not sure how this is relevant thematically. It is a cool aspect and literally what alot of the your were arguing people with were mentioning earlier regarding which aspects of Tiamat people liked.How is cutting Tiamat show that she is completely different from the other tsun/dere/lovestruck/silly goddesses that mr harem protag can flex his charm to recruit, when she is the biggest surprise in the story - one who you cannot use TALK NO JUTSU on? That's just silly.
The first half is shown with basically literally every scene with Gilgamesh and the second half literally isn't relevant to the first.
Because Gorgon is also an extreme threat. I don't believe Beasts are even established before this point so her being a Beast really isn't to relevant. Additionally how is this thematically relevant? I'm not suggesting that Babylon would be just as good without Tiamat, I'm saying that the themes she revlolves around are already explored to a lesser degree earlier in the show.
The whole Leonidas and Ushiwaka stuff does this but I mean again this is "Babylon is better with Tiamat". Which I don't disagree with but isn't relevant and certainly isn't relevant in regards to the stuff that is cut.
I will admit that this probably is a theme and wouldn't be remotely be touched upon without the presence. But you've really taken a hypothetical to point out how themes are dealt with through out the story and forced me to to defend it. Like the show does keep everything that is mentioned here this is only a relevant argument to the hypothetical.
Doesn't literally everyone but Kingu join up before Tiamat is introduced? This is just incorrect
Your argument has gotten a bit schizophrenic here. You stated earlier that the reason Babylon is good is its themes so my hypothetical was meant to point out that the themes you're talking about are present elsewhere in the story. Certainly part of the reason Babylon exists is to establish the idea of Beasts which takes some of the load off the final singularity but I mean I just don't think that is relevant thematically.
Whats this got to do with literally anything what so ever? I quite genuinely have no idea why you brought this up
I find arguments like these extremely overly dismissive. Art shouldn't be forced to also have an entirely characterized/validated villain if its not thematically relevant. Shin Godzilla is a really good example here as the film is trying to make a statement about the way Japan gets bogged down in bureaucracy when dealing with natural disasters. As such Godzilla the main villain of the film retrieves literally zero characterization. In my point of view the two most important things in a piece of art, that everything in said piece is used to convey are the thematic statements it is making and the emotional impact it has on the viewer. Under this framework I think the Babylon anime works fine as not fully characterizing Tiamat doesn't really lose out on any of themes the work is saying but does personally add the the emotional impact of the work.
The episode was pure hype and showed what Babylonia could have been with godlike directing extended to all episodes. And Fujimaru actually contributing to fights and being a Master with capital M for once.
ah, zegapain... the the infamously bad major role debut of a current seiyuu superstar hanakana
Oh that's what that was. Pretty cool, wish it had a bit more detail than just Aias clone.
Maybe some of the Hanging Garden's motifs of her children or mestopotamian symbols would have been nice compared to solid pink. It's a conceptual bounded field, after all, lets see the concept behind it.
Last edited by You; February 22nd, 2020 at 06:37 PM.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
Gorgon is not even a major deity. A minor deity fearing humans is vastly inconsequential compare to the literal creator goddess fearing that humanity will kill their creator.If you still fail to see how one who destroys humanity yet love humanity, out of pure instincts, is relevant to what Eresh freaking said about gods not hating humans, just that they cannot live with humans (which Tiamat represents, the incompatibility is down to even conceptual lvl and not just vanity words)....then lol. Tiamat is how Nasu did "show, don't tell".Why is this relevant thematically?None of those scenes said anything about why she is Beast II, why she is the Original sin, why she represents humanity. All of what I asked you to show were in the dream scene that they did not put in lol.Episode 15 10:00-~10:28, Episode 15 14:54-~16:00,The evil and love of humanity is a CONFLICTING thing that all of them represents. Goetia loves and pity humanity so much he did his plan that will end humanity. Tiamat loves humanity so she instinctively destroy herself, while killing humanity. Kiara loves humanity and try to give salvation, but her view on humanity is twisted so she is an evil to them. Do I need to go on to explain why this conflicting of love and hate is important to the Beasts?Why is this thematically relevant to any of the themes you're referring too.Except it is. If Tiamat is just like the other goddesses, there is zero need for Gil to build the wall for 6 months to protect his ppl from certain doom. Tiamat is what forced Gil to think of how to deal with something he cannot solve no matter how hard he tries. None of the other threats prior to Tiamat are sufficient to push him to the limits to show his true qualities.The first half is shown with basically literally every scene with Gilgamesh and the second half literally isn't relevant to the first.She isn't. Threatening yes, but the reason she got to do what she wants is because Gil, Merlin, King Hassan and the likes have the real Tiamat to deal with, they all prepping for what is way beyond what Gorgon can do. Removing the real Tiamat means they are free to gang up and easily deal with Gorgon.Because Gorgon is also an extreme threat.That is because they cut the dream scene from section 5 like I said, literally very early on in the story. So you also fall into the trap of the anime and forgot that shit exists to introduce the basic concept of them.I don't believe Beasts are even established before this point so her being a Beast really isn't to relevant.And Tiamat is what combines all of that into the full package. I'd prefer the full package.I'm saying that the themes she revlolves around are already explored to a lesser degree earlier in the show.I'm not even talking about that but the entire plot. Go back to the beginning and remember the chain of events. Goetia released Tiamat but Merlin - summoned by Gil - intercepted her and put her to sleep. Goetia made Kingu go and try to wake her up so he summoned Gorgon, who chain-summoned Quetz. To counter, Babylonia priest summoned Ishtar but also got Eresh in the mix. Babylonia literally will have to be rewritten from scratch without Tiamat.Doesn't literally everyone but Kingu join up before Tiamat is introduced? This is just incorrectDid you just forget that line you intentionally wrote in small fonts with a strike over it about why they treat Tiamat like creator of humanity? You missed that Nammu info from that dream scene I said many times now, so I refresh your mind.Whats this got to do with literally anything what so ever? I quite genuinely have no idea why you brought this upI expect an adaptation to at least try and show all that is. And so far characterization for Tiamat is missing, that is a flaw with the adaptation for not being faithful, no matter how much you like it. So no, Shin Godzilla has nothing to do with missing elements ppl expect the adaptation to have. If I were to be honest, yes I do agree that if you look at Tiamat like Shin Godzilla, she does her job well. But that doesn't change the fact that the adaptation cut what Nasu intended to give to her out.I find arguments like these extremely overly dismissive. Art shouldn't be forced to also have an entirely characterized/validated villain if its not thematically relevant. Shin Godzilla is a really good example here as the film is trying to make a statement about the way Japan gets bogged down in bureaucracy when dealing with natural disasters. As such Godzilla the main villain of the film retrieves literally zero characterization. In my point of view the two most important things in a piece of art, that everything in said piece is used to convey are the thematic statements it is making and the emotional impact it has on the viewer. Under this framework I think the Babylon anime works fine as not fully characterizing Tiamat doesn't really lose out on any of themes the work is saying but does personally add the the emotional impact of the work.
Hoollly shiit when they are passing through the Lahmu to get to Tiamat
Spoiler:
Wandering on internet
I mean this is a scale issue. It would be less impactful if it was just Gorgon but my point is that the theme would still be thereGorgon is not even a major deity. A minor deity fearing humans is vastly inconsequential compare to the literal creator goddess fearing that humanity will kill their creator.
This is primary a narrative issue that would go unaddressed which isn't relevant thematically and more importantly its an issue with a hypothetical I used to argue that the Tiamat's themes are still conveyed in the anime as it currently is. As such I kinda think this is an irrelevant point like Gilgamesh's arc might be ruined by Tiamat not appearing but Tiamat does appear in the anime and I don't believe you've taken issue with Gilgamesh's portrayal.Except it is. If Tiamat is just like the other goddesses, there is zero need for Gil to build the wall for 6 months to protect his ppl from certain doom. Tiamat is what forced Gil to think of how to deal with something he cannot solve no matter how hard he tries. None of the other threats prior to Tiamat are sufficient to push him to the limits to show his true qualities.
The evil and love of humanity is a CONFLICTING thing that all of them represents. Goetia loves and pity humanity so much he did his plan that will end humanity. Tiamat loves humanity so she instinctively destroy herself, while killing humanity. Kiara loves humanity and try to give salvation, but her view on humanity is twisted so she is an evil to them. Do I need to go on to explain why this conflicting of love and hate is important to the Beasts?The conflicting love and evil stuff is considerably lessened in the anime for sure but I mean its still an incredibly underdeveloped theme in the game as well. Like the idea that Tiamat is holding back is present in like a grand total of two scenes. I won't deny that the anime is probably worse for missing out those scenes but I don't think the anime is missing what makes Babylonia good given that those themes within the source work are also underdeveloped.None of those scenes said anything about why she is Beast II, why she is the Original sin, why she represents humanity. All of what I asked you to show were in the dream scene that they did not put in lol.
Also I think it strengthens my point that literally everything you mentioned in the second quote is missing because they cut a single very short scene. If a theme is so ill handled in the original work that cutting a single scene removes it, it hardly bothers me that they dropped the theme in the adaptation.
Alot of these stuff are Babylon in order to introduce the idea for Solomon to deal with, which given that the Babylon isn't adapting these they kinda become almost irrelevant themes when looking at Babylon as an individual piece of art
This is the Gilgamesh thing again. Yes it wouldn't work as well but for the point the hypothetical was trying to make its irrelevant as I feel pretty confident in assuming you still think all of those elements work within the context of show as it is.She isn't. Threatening yes, but the reason she got to do what she wants is because Gil, Merlin, King Hassan and the likes have the real Tiamat to deal with, they all prepping for what is way beyond what Gorgon can do. Removing the real Tiamat means they are free to gang up and easily deal with Gorgon.
Sorry the strikeout and small font thing was because it wasn't raised as a very serious point so I didn't realize you were responding to it.Did you just forget that line you intentionally wrote in small fonts with a strike over it about why they treat Tiamat like creator of humanity? You missed that Nammu info from that dream scene I said many times now, so I refresh your mind.
Beasts are never mentioned by name nor established as a particularity dangerous threat in that dream sequence which is relevant because the point I was responding to was the idea that Tiamat was important because she shows "the big bad of the entire plot is flexing his maximum effort ".That is because they cut the dream scene from section 5 like I said, literally very early on in the story. So you also fall into the trap of the anime and forgot that shit exists to introduce the basic concept of them.
And Tiamat is what combines all of that into the full package. I'd prefer the full package.Both of these are totally chill I just find the way you presume that people who aren't bothered by this being missing just don't understand kinda of arguing in extremely bad faith. Not liking that the scenes have been cut is totally fineI expect an adaptation to at least try and show all that is. And so far characterization for Tiamat is missing, that is a flaw with the adaptation for not being faithful, no matter how much you like it. So no, Shin Godzilla has nothing to do with missing elements ppl expect the adaptation to have. If I were to be honest, yes I do agree that if you look at Tiamat like Shin Godzilla, she does her job well. But that doesn't change the fact that the adaptation cut what Nasu intended to give to her out.
They also delivered on what that steve guy liked about the colossal beast that Tiamat is
Out of interest what do you mean by this? I did like how Tiamat is portrayed in this episode but I'm not quite sure what in particular you are referring to?
I, too, wished to see Benkei's Pilgrimage in action. But by God was Quetz's sequence the greatest thing ever. What better way to deal with a primordial mother of life than a literal extinction level event?
Now for the love of god give her an animation update DW
this is the first time seeing Rider servant did legit Rider Kick, in my most favorite 555 style.
Speaking of, what is the reason for Quetz being associated with dinosaurs and the meteor that wiped them out anyway? Is it just because of the Yucatan crater?
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