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Thread: Fate/Grand Order: Babylonia

  1. #3521
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors weeblord's Avatar
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    cute

  2. #3522
    BRING IT ON Sandstorm77's Avatar
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    Ok this is easily the best episode yet hands down. Hooo boy i was grinning the whole way through. They even managed to use the CG for tiamat way better than last episode.

    My one complain is that i wish we could've seen benkei's NP, because even in game it looked nice to me, so i was curious on how it would've been.



    "An ideal is only an ideal after all. As long as you embrace that ideal, the friction with reality will continue to increase. So you will someday face reality and will have to pay for your compromises"



  3. #3523
    魔力供給 Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    So my friend who is kaiju genre fan pointed out how a lot of the shots of Tiamat in the fog, the glow on her "wings" gives proper kaiju vibes that they use in a lot of kaiju films and the shot of her wings reminds him of Mothra assisting Godzilla, only that in this case the kaiju is a combination of both. That's pretty cool tbh.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    Ok this is easily the best episode yet hands down. Hooo boy i was grinning the whole way through. They even managed to use the CG for tiamat way better than last episode.

    My one complain is that i wish we could've seen benkei's NP, because even in game it looked nice to me, so i was curious on how it would've been.
    I was expecting 500 monks swarming the scene, taking all Ushis and Lahmus within the area to nirvana. But having Quetz taking them all at once is good enough to me. Poor Benkei tho he never ever get any big role.


    まかせておきなさい、魔王様!

  4. #3524
    Liked how, visually speaking, Quetz vs Tiamat was a reenactment of Gae Bolg vs Rho Aias.

  5. #3525
    リビングデッド Living Dead Lelo's Avatar
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    I don't know how to feel about the episode.
    The Leonidas talk was cut short and Benkei didn't get his exorcism moment.

    Yet I feel bad for thinking this since it was an amazing episode overall

  6. #3526
    wwwww Spartacus's Avatar
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    Those Buddhism NPs tend to be hard to understand by only reading them, so I wish I can witness it visually.

    cool EP tho

  7. #3527
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors weeblord's Avatar
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    ^probably what cloverworks were thinking when they decided to skip it

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    BRING IT ON Sandstorm77's Avatar
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    It's just kinda sad that benkei will be the only servant to appear and not to get to show his NP. The way he fought probably actually showed his determination better, but it's still a shame.



    "An ideal is only an ideal after all. As long as you embrace that ideal, the friction with reality will continue to increase. So you will someday face reality and will have to pay for your compromises"



  9. #3529
    The Greatest Cool Reign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weeblord View Post
    ^probably what cloverworks were thinking when they decided to skip it
    You know what that's fair

  10. #3530
    全力後輩 - Zenryoku Kohai Altima of the Gates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reign View Post
    I love it every time an anime does this. It's never fails.
    Zegapain was literally all about playing up the ending theme for the "oh shit" moment to get you jammed for the next ep, our club both dreaded and loved when it started when we watched it.

    Also, this ep was very nice. Quetz love forever. I am thankful when a show really hits home that hype feeling for a character's big moment.

  11. #3531
    リビングデッド Living Dead Stevethepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio View Post
    Show me which part of the show explained why she sealed herself. You can't.
    Show me which part of the show explained that HUMANS are actually what SHE fears and is actually acting on survival instinct. You can't.
    I mean to start why is that thematically relevant to what Babylonia is saying. But more importantly if the gods fearing humans is meant to be a larger theme in Babylonia the Gorgon stuff absolutely does deal with that


    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly Emilio
    Show me which part of the show explained that Tiamat is also the patron of humanity and that is her predetermined role which led to her seal. You can't.
    Why is this relevant thematically?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly Emilio
    Show me which part of the show explained that the reason Tiamat is a Beast representing humanity despite being a monstrosity that she is. You can't.
    Episode 15 10:00-~10:28, Episode 15 14:54-~16:00,

    Show me which part of the show explained how Tiamat also represents the separation of humanity and gods that Gil is leading. You can't.[/QUOTE]

    I don't think is even established in the game by this point

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio
    Show me which part of the show explained ANYTHING that Tiamat is acting on CONFLICTING INSTINCTS. You can't.
    Why is this thematically relevant to any of the themes you're referring too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio
    Your first comment on the matter did not say anything good about me but a jab that was obviously directed at me but you did not specify for w/e reason, did you forget what you wrote?
    My first comment was complaining about the toxic tone the conversation was having. While you were a significant figure in the conversation being that I was actually more so referring to Wander_swordsman. I don't think pointing out that someone that someone is being needlessly hostile and aggressive needs to be prefaced with compliments. Given that I've been gish-galloped into arguing about whether Tiamat's portrayal in the anime is any good evidently that part of my comment was relevant so I apologize.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio
    How is cutting Tiamat show that humanity must move from the "mother" to advance, which is a nod to how moving away from the early Matrilineality system helped humanity to advance? That's just silly.
    The show still deals with gods and moving away from theme in the earlier sections of the show. If the story did only present its major themes in the final third that would be a significant failure of the work. The idea humanity needs to move away from its mother to advance is still present in the whole Ur subplot. I'll admit I don't see how the early Matrilineality stuff is ever dealt with prior but that seems alot more a personally interpretation then definitively what Babylon was saying.

    How is cutting Tiamat show that she is completely different from the other tsun/dere/lovestruck/silly goddesses that mr harem protag can flex his charm to recruit, when she is the biggest surprise in the story - one who you cannot use TALK NO JUTSU on? That's just silly.
    I'm not sure how this is relevant thematically. It is a cool aspect and literally what alot of the your were arguing people with were mentioning earlier regarding which aspects of Tiamat people liked.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio
    How is cutting Tiamat show that Gilgamesh out of all people will prioritize the safely of his own people than his own ass, when all of the other threats prior to Tiamat could be dealt with by Talk no Jutsu and help of some servants? That's just silly.
    The first half is shown with basically literally every scene with Gilgamesh and the second half literally isn't relevant to the first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio
    How is cutting Tiamat show that the big bad of the entire plot is flexing his maximum effort - by summoning a fellow Beast - to take this final frontier of humanity down? That's just silly.
    Because Gorgon is also an extreme threat. I don't believe Beasts are even established before this point so her being a Beast really isn't to relevant. Additionally how is this thematically relevant? I'm not suggesting that Babylon would be just as good without Tiamat, I'm saying that the themes she revlolves around are already explored to a lesser degree earlier in the show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio
    How is cutting Tiamat show that the situation is no joke even for the OP characters within the story? That's just silly.
    The whole Leonidas and Ushiwaka stuff does this but I mean again this is "Babylon is better with Tiamat". Which I don't disagree with but isn't relevant and certainly isn't relevant in regards to the stuff that is cut.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio
    How is cutting Tiamat show that Beasts, which Goetia is one of, are extremes of humanity yet absolutely inhuman, which also acts as the most simple Beast with the most simple concept to set the groundwork for all other Beasts? That's just silly.
    I will admit that this probably is a theme and wouldn't be remotely be touched upon without the presence. But you've really taken a hypothetical to point out how themes are dealt with through out the story and forced me to to defend it. Like the show does keep everything that is mentioned here this is only a relevant argument to the hypothetical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio
    Cutting Tiamat is cutting majority of the MOTIVATIONS for Gil and majority of the cast to team together, to abandon their differences, to unite under one single banner.
    Doesn't literally everyone but Kingu join up before Tiamat is introduced? This is just incorrect

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio
    Cutting the Beast whose purpose is to represent the class in the most basic sense is cutting why Babylonia happened in the first place. All of what you said is just silly.
    Your argument has gotten a bit schizophrenic here. You stated earlier that the reason Babylon is good is its themes so my hypothetical was meant to point out that the themes you're talking about are present elsewhere in the story. Certainly part of the reason Babylon exists is to establish the idea of Beasts which takes some of the load off the final singularity but I mean I just don't think that is relevant thematically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio
    Also it seems you also ignore the whole thing about the game saying life is born from Nammu. Nammu is proto Tiamat in Sumerian myth, whose role was swapped out and replaced by a more antagonistic Tiamat in Babylonian myth. There's a reason Gil said "The beast of disaster who called herself Tiamat" and "Tiamat or goddess is just false titles, she is Beast II".
    Whats this got to do with literally anything what so ever? I quite genuinely have no idea why you brought this up

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio
    When information is provided to you, you keep saying why is it relevant. But perhaps you should ask yourself why are you trying so hard to dismiss its relevance. Is it because you're defending the show, or is it because you just hate her so much you refuse to accept anything that gives her characterization. In either cases, even going by just basic story writing rules, no sane writer would ignore characterization of the villain, especially that this villain is the extreme take on Dark Sakura in FSN, a character that Nasu is really fond of. No matter how many bullshit reasons you try to say (which you did not anw, you only say things without a single piece of proof that all worked well), it will not change the fact that the main antagonist of the show and the driving force for every character cannot be ignored nor be lumped with stupid comedy moments that you might prefer.
    I find arguments like these extremely overly dismissive. Art shouldn't be forced to also have an entirely characterized/validated villain if its not thematically relevant. Shin Godzilla is a really good example here as the film is trying to make a statement about the way Japan gets bogged down in bureaucracy when dealing with natural disasters. As such Godzilla the main villain of the film retrieves literally zero characterization. In my point of view the two most important things in a piece of art, that everything in said piece is used to convey are the thematic statements it is making and the emotional impact it has on the viewer. Under this framework I think the Babylon anime works fine as not fully characterizing Tiamat doesn't really lose out on any of themes the work is saying but does personally add the the emotional impact of the work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    I mean, plenty judge without being able to actually read the story, so why not judge when nobody can actually read the story?

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