You're right, it was "mature women." It still seems like a rather spiteful thing to do.Originally Posted by forumghost
You're right, it was "mature women." It still seems like a rather spiteful thing to do.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Wait, was Zouken even implied to be dead or dealt with? I don't think so. That, and it's not like Shinji could actually make Gilgamesh actually do anything, unless Gilgamesh found the old worm so disgusting he had to squash him, which now that I think about it seems like him. On the other hand, no Zouken = also equals no easy good plot for Rin and Waver's effort to destroy the Greater Grail.
No, he wouldn't for Sakura. He would because Zouken's a bitch and he knows it too.
And he wouldn't do anything to sabotage the Sakura grail because he doesn't really know that exists. He'd do it because fuck his gramps for not believing in him.
But I don't necessarily think he's done those things, just that its a possibility that you would hope happened. There is nothing that actually clearly removes Sakura from her situation after Fate or UBW.
Localizationing stuff
No, it was just the fact that Gilgamesh was hanging around in the worm basement and squashing worms with Zouken nowhere to be found and Shinji looking smug, pretty much.
I mean, I could totally see Shinji doing it or Gilgamesh getting annoyed and offing him.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
I wouldn't say that. Just have someone in the Association look into the Grail and realize what the ritual is actually for (path to the Root) and everone and their mother will be in Fuyuki trying to claim the thing, god of evil or no.
Personally, I think leaving Sakura in her situation opens up a good sequel hook for when Rin and Waver return to destroy the Greater Grail. On another note, my dream scenario for such a thing would be Rin and Shirou coming with Waver to Fuyuki, and somehow Rin or Shirou summons Saber and Waver summons Iskandar, and thus the two dream teams are back together, but this time on the same side! Man, I wish Nasu would release something like this, and I hope someone at TM would write a good Third HGW scenario.
For sure, but this adds an emotional element to any plot about the epilogue, and it adds some antagonistic continuity. I didn't say there were no good plots if Zouken was gone, I just said no good easy ones.
Now that I think about it, I wonder what Zouken would have thought of Gilgamesh showing up with Shinji in the first place.
Zouken was around for the 4th Grail War, so he would have known who Gilgamesh was and he would have known he was Kotomine's servant, so he wouldn't have been happy or supportive about it at all probably considering how they never got along. So, suddenly the two of them having a fight of some sort seems more reasonable.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Also yeah the easy plot of destroying the greater grail is the fact that the greater grail is still there and the possibility that in another ten years it'd just start up again is an easy leap to make since it specifies that Waver and Rin disable it ten years later.
Localizationing stuff
Well yeah, I thought that was what was stated barebones by Nasu somewhere (an infobook? the VN itself?). I'm just talking about what might occur within that framework. I mean, it'd be nice somehow for Sakura to be saved from her wormy situation in the aftermath of Fate and UBW and for either version's Rin to be forced to confront her failure as a big sister, maybe with Shirou at her side to help.
If the greater grail is destroyed ten years later, wouldn't that save Sakura anyway?
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Not from the worms. Just from the Black Grail. Still, Zouken attempting to use Sakura and Rin having to realize what was going on the whole time would be a great plot, maybe with a subplot about adult Shirou figuring out the relationship between Rin and Sakura and the resulting strain in his relationship with Rin.
Yeah.... I can't see Shinji and Gil playing around in worm pit if it wasn't for Zoken's death
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I dunno. This is the guy who let Kariya fight in the 4th Holy Grail War on a whim despite knowing he wouldn't win, and he just let Shinji participate in the first place. He could have just not given a shit that Gil and Shinji were dicking around in the worm pit. It's not like they destroyed a significant amount of worms.
Any reason to think that Gil or Shinji knew about the soul worm? I don't recall any, and I expect Gil's solution would've involved surprise heart surgery.
O walls, you have held up so much tedious graffiti that I am amazed you have not already collapsed in ruin.
Shinji definitely wouldn't know, Gil probably knew but didn't give a shit like is the case with 99% of things
Why? Zouken doesn’t have any pressing reason to defend it. It’s basically his lab, and one easy to recreate. He is not stuck in there or anything either. He isn’t going to pick a fight with a servant just to save a few worms. It’s not like he doesn’t have spares to just refil it after gil has his version of weasel stomping day.
It's not Zoken won't defend it, Shinji playing there is questionable because he is afraid of Zoken. The fact he's playing in his grandpa lab is....
Last edited by Wandering Swordwoman; August 17th, 2018 at 06:58 AM.
Spoiler:
Wandering on internet
Is...because he has an overpowered servant who could crush zouken with a thought. And he expects to soon become omnipotent after he gains the grail, therefor he has no reason to be afraid of an old knock off vampire?
I mean the most likely Scenario is that Zouken 'died' there, then his remaining worms ran off to eat someone in the park to reform his body, but I like to pretend otherwise.
Indeed, when you aren't born out of convenience as a failsafe, and have the tutelage/resources you were always supposed to have, you end up pretty well off.
Yup, still salty.
Here is the thing. Like Tobias was saying, his familiars seem easily replaced.
Post Fate might, *might* have Ilya help her with the familiars already inside her and Zouken, but Nasu makes things mostly to foster conversation, so there isn't enough to go on there.
She says she likes Sakura in HF, but was still loyal to her role as the Grail enough that she stays quiet about what she knows is going on with the system, so you can flip a coin.
In post UBW if anything, she is the one who supports Shinji's recovery not the other way around, even the explanation of him changing is pretty much "eh, I feel better about myself, magecraft isn't anything to get mad over" and...that's about it. Wouldn't inform Rin or Shirou about any dealings his family had with Sakura for fear of incriminating himself.
Zouken also says that he has a good 50 some odd years, and it's not clear what route the dismantling happens.
And even if Zouken is purified/destroyed/whatever, she still has self sustaining familiars in her body that have made it their home in her vital organs, taking energy/life force to sustain themselves, they just don't have a reason to exist anymore,it's not like they'll just melt away if Zouken dies.
His soul jar is also in her heart since he is a coward, so there is that too. Which is why the Gil killing some worms bit doesn't hold water other than him doing the equivalent of burning some books in a workshop, might be a setback, but not a fatal one.
Even the dismantling thing isn't an assured thing, since who knows what happens there.
Ain't even a thing where I'd be saying to pity her or whatever, logically it's pretty bad and has been for a long time.
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