The murderer opened the windows from outside in some fashion, possibly by slicing the frame with a laser or incredibly fine blade and fitting them back on afterwards.
The murderer opened the windows from outside in some fashion, possibly by slicing the frame with a laser or incredibly fine blade and fitting them back on afterwards.
1. It was mentioned that the windows were closed when the survivors entered the rooms, but not that the windows were locked. Specifically, when Rin destroyed the window to Rider's room in her rage, it became impossible to know whether that window was locked or not. Therefore, Rider's room was not a locked room because the window was unlocked, making it possible for a killer to leave the room without unlocking the door.
2. Due to his resilience and Battle Continuation, it wouldn't be unusual for Lancer to persist after a fatal wound. So repeat it in red, if you can: "All the victims of the third round of locked room murders died instantly."
Spoiler:
Some enjoyable blue truths today, to be countered by fairly simple red truths, since that's all it will take.
Apart from the windows that Rin destroyed, no other windows have been destroyed at any point. Furthermore, all the windows in Rider's room were locked as well as closed when they first entered it, prior to Rin destroying the windows. In other words it is not possible for the killer to have locked the window from the outside of the room.
In addition, All class skills and personal skills fall under the domain of magic. In other words Lancer does not posses battle continuation.
Well, I know what you're trying to get at with that. So let me cut that train of thought prematurely.
Nobody in the third round of locked rooms locked their doors after suffering a fatal wound. After all once a fatal wound is inflicted, their life is extinguished. There is no time to perform such complex actions as fiddling with the door.
<Satehi> I, satehi, thought of tentacles first for entirely inappropriate, disgusting, lewd and perverted reasons
Honk
Still doesn't quite seem to refute my blue truth, which was that the murderer might've somehow opened a window without unlocking it. So repeat it in red- The only way to enter or exit through a window is by unlocking it!
Okay, it's getting interesting now. In that case... here's a theory.
1. Sakura and Rider's murderers, of which there were two, remained in their victims' rooms after killing their victims and locking the doors and windows. Whether the keys were switched before or after is irrelevant, as is where and when Rider and Sakura actually died, since their bodies could have been moved at any time prior to the doors and windows being locked. The doors were locked from the inside without the use of the keys. The murderers did not leave their victims' rooms until the doors were broken open. They merely hid from the sight of the investigators and snuck out afterwards, creating the illusion of an impossible locked room.
2. In the second round, the keys were not in the rooms when they were first opened. Since the first thing the groups focused on was the bodies of Rin and Saber, the murderers took the opportunity to plant the victims' respective keys, which had been taken and used to lock their doors after the murders, on their respective drawers, creating the illusion of a closed room.
Spoiler:
Tick tock tick tock tick tock.
Time to resume this game. First thing's first. Not only will I repeat that, I'll add a bonus for you.
It is only possible to enter or exit a window when it is open. A window can only be open when it's unlocked.
Next thing's next.
Prior to entry into both Sakura and Rider's room, those rooms contained no living humans.
The last people to touch keys found on the drawers were Rin and Saber respectively! In other words, from the time they entered their room to the time to murder was discovered, nobody else was able to touched those keys!
It's time to pick up the pace. Everybody's blue truth limit has been increased from 2 per day to 3 per day. Make the most of it.
<Satehi> I, satehi, thought of tentacles first for entirely inappropriate, disgusting, lewd and perverted reasons
Honk
1. In the third round, one of the corpses was that of a murderer. The killer acquired several keys, used them to unlock doors as needed, and then sequentially killed victims one by one, planting the keys of the preceding victim on their body after using them to lock the door. Afterwards, the killer entered their own room and locked the door, either feigning death or committing suicide.
For example, if Lancer were the killer in round 3, he would've killed Bazett and left his key on her person. He'd then use Bazett's key to lock her room and plant it on Caster's body, continuing until only Ilya's key was left in his possession. He could then return to his own room, lock it from the inside, and then either feign death or kill himself, completing the impossible room circle. After all, since it wasn't stated that every single corpse was the result of a "murder", suicide or accident are acceptable alternatives.
2. Your truths about the windows have been a bit spotty,. So it may well be time to patch that hole: The windows in the second and third round victims' rooms were not proven to be locked. Therefore, the murderer could have used them to enter and exit the rooms.
Spoiler:
Another day, another truth~
All four corpses in the third round were killed by another person. There were no suicides and definitely four kills.
The windows in the second and third round victim's rooms were both closed and locked.
In other words, it's impossible to get in and out via that entry. Come on, there's no way it would have been that easy, right~
<Satehi> I, satehi, thought of tentacles first for entirely inappropriate, disgusting, lewd and perverted reasons
Honk
All locked doors remained locked. All locked windows remained locked. The definition of 'remained locked,' as it applies to this particular gameboard, is as follows: once in a state of 'being locked,' none but the room's true occupant, who is also living human, is capable of unlocking them, which they do according to their own will. Therefore, I say that none of the murders actually are locked-room cases at all; they only appear that way from the way the narrative has been presented to us!
The killer didn't have a need to force their way into any room--the killer was willingingly let inside. Once inside the victim's room, the killer took advantage of the opening to murder the victim. In the first round of closed rooms, the killer then took the key, and with it pocketed away went to the next victim's room. To give the illusion of a closed room, the killer deposited the key on the corpse, went to the door, which can lock from the inside without use of a key, locked it before they then closed the door, and closed the door behind them--locking themselves out of the room, and giving themselves a viable alibi.
Also, I'll use my last Blue Truth of the round to cover what should have been an obvious base to cover: There is more than one murderer, or the murderer has an accomplice who is just as culpable and a key component to the crimes that occurred in the mansion.
Repeat it in red, if you can: "It is not possible to force one's way into a guest room as long as a living human has locked themselves inside of the room."
Please feel free to cut down as many of these with Red Truth as you see fit. I hope this sacrificial offering is to your liking.
Last edited by ItsaRandomUsername; September 11th, 2018 at 04:47 PM.
My Fanfics. Read 'em. Or not.McJon01: We all know that the real reason Archer would lose to Rider is because the events of his own Holy Grail War left him with a particular weakness toward "older sister" types.
1. "Rin and Saber went to their rooms unharmed, locked the doors, and placed their respective keys on their bedside drawers. Then they went to sleep. They did not wake the next morning. They were murdered by Archer and Shirou, respectively, in the moment of the "discovery" of their murders. They looked like they were sleeping because they were sleeping, likely kept in a coma-like stupor by drugs mixed into the meals created by and served to them by the Emiyas that very same day as part of their "cooking contest", for which Rin and Saber were judges. As they slept, Archer and Shirou stabbed into Rin and Saber's throats with a pair of stakes under the guise of waking them up, committing murder in plain sight. Thus, because Rin and Saber died only after their doors were broken down, there are no locked rooms in the second round!"
Last edited by Bloble; September 11th, 2018 at 06:19 PM.
A brief break but it seems like there's more Blue Truths to be had at last.
Spoiler:
What an interesting time it is now...
Let's resume.
All locked doors remained locked. All locked windows remained locked. The definition of 'remained locked,' as it applies to this particular gameboard, is as follows: once in a state of 'being locked,' none but the room's true occupant, who is also living human, is capable of unlocking them, which they do according to their own will. Therefore, I say that none of the murders actually are locked-room cases at all; they only appear that way from the way the narrative has been presented to us!
Ineffective blue truth. This is more defining the definitions and as such I'll respond as such.
The only entrances into and out of the room is either via the door or the windows. No hidden passages exist in the guestrooms.
Of course, as long as the entrances are closed it is impossible for objects to pass into or out of the room.
Each room only has one key. This is the only key that can open that room. No copies of any keys exist. No master keys exist.
The only way to lock the doors from the outside is with the usage of their keys. No other method exists to lock the door from the outside.
Of course one can lock the doors from inside the room without the usage of a key.
The same applies to the windows! In fact, they can only be locked from the inside.
I'll also summarize an extra thing. Once a room is 'locked', the only ones capable of unlocking it are living humans already inside the room, or someone who possess the key to that specific room.
No room doors possess an auto-lock feature. In other words, doors can only be locked or unlocked when they are closed. Or to get more to the point, it's impossible to lock the door and then close it!The killer didn't have a need to force their way into any room--the killer was willingingly let inside. Once inside the victim's room, the killer took advantage of the opening to murder the victim. In the first round of closed rooms, the killer then took the key, and with it pocketed away went to the next victim's room. To give the illusion of a closed room, the killer deposited the key on the corpse, went to the door, which can lock from the inside without use of a key, locked it before they then closed the door, and closed the door behind them--locking themselves out of the room, and giving themselves a viable alibi.
There is more than one murderer, or the murderer has an accomplice who is just as culpable and a key component to the crimes that occurred in the mansion.
I refuse to respond to this. Whether there's only one murderer or a dozen, it doesn't matter if it doesn't explain how the crime was committed. If you can think of a theory involving multiple murderers I'll reply.
I will respond your request for that red truth though.
Once a person has locked themselves in their room, it is not possible for someone outside the room to enter the room unless they possess a room key or break the door down. However, once a door has been broken door it is permanently destroyed with no way to repair it. It is also not possible to hide this destruction.
"Rin and Saber went to their rooms unharmed, locked the doors, and placed their respective keys on their bedside drawers. Then they went to sleep. They did not wake the next morning. They were murdered by Archer and Shirou, respectively, in the moment of the "discovery" of their murders. They looked like they were sleeping because they were sleeping, likely kept in a coma-like stupor by drugs mixed into the meals created by and served to them by the Emiyas that very same day as part of their "cooking contest", for which Rin and Saber were judges. As they slept, Archer and Shirou stabbed into Rin and Saber's throats with a pair of stakes under the guise of waking them up, committing murder in plain sight. Thus, because Rin and Saber died only after their doors were broken down, there are no locked rooms in the second round!"
I'll slice this apart with the red! The moment the door to each room was opened, both Rin and Saber were already dead! In other words it is impossible for Archer and Shirou to murder them under the guise of waking them up. Furthermore there was no shady drugs used in the "cooking contest" used between Shirou and Archer.
Having reached this point, the number of blue truths you can use per day has increased to four. Do your best~
Also a collection of all red truths used so far will be added to the opening post.
<Satehi> I, satehi, thought of tentacles first for entirely inappropriate, disgusting, lewd and perverted reasons
Honk
Clear the way. The cavalry has arrived.
No review of an investigation is complete without a look at the facts. For now, let's focus only on Rider and Sakura's murder, to keep things manageable. We know that:
- Both doors to their rooms were locked.
- The windows were locked.
- Each key was found with the other person.
- They had those other keys during the discovery of the murders; they weren't planted during it.
- You can lock the doors from the inside without a key.
- You can lock the doors from the outside only with the key.
- You can only lock windows from the inside.
- Sakura and Rider both had "their keys" when attacked.
- Nobody was hiding in their rooms during discovery.
Some of these "facts" are quite ambiguous.
We are told that Sakura and Rider had "their" keys when attacked. Does that mean each one had their OWN key, or that the two keys were between them collectively? Could it be possible the keys were already swapped...?
I've been wracking my brain to figure out how somebody could kill Sakura or Rider, then get out of their room and lock it behind them, while placing the key to the other person's room with the corpse and then doing the same at the second victim's room.
But... if the keys could have been swapped around, a possibility opens up... involving their own suicides.
Let us suppose a theory:
> Rider and Sakura are in Sakura's room.
> Sakura kills herself.
> Rider takes Sakura's key, and leaves her own key with Sakura.
> Rider locks Sakura's room from outside with Sakura's key.
> Rider goes to her own room, and locks the door from the inside.
> Rider kills herself, possessing Sakura's key.
This way, all the conditions are fulfilled: Sakura is dead with Rider's key and the door locked, and Rider is dead with Sakura's key and the door locked.
Let's see if this gap in the red truth we've been given bears any fruit.
Say it in red! "Sakura had Sakura's key at the time of Sakura's murder, and Rider had Rider's key at the time of Rider's murder."
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Not a bad theory. But also not. quite. good. enough.
I'll repeat it in red for you. I'll even add some extra free of charge~
Sakura had Sakura's key at the time of her murder, and Rider had Rider's key at the time of her murder. Of course, another key word here is murder. In other words, this was a homicide and not a suicide!
<Satehi> I, satehi, thought of tentacles first for entirely inappropriate, disgusting, lewd and perverted reasons
Honk
...Tch, well played... it looks like my time here won't be wasted, after all.
That still leaves the door open for the victims to have played a part in their deaths.
Say it in red! "Neither Sakura or Rider were accomplices in the homicides."
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Neither Sakura or Rider were accomplices in their own murders.
That should cover it.
<Satehi> I, satehi, thought of tentacles first for entirely inappropriate, disgusting, lewd and perverted reasons
Honk
I see, so we have a good old fashioned killer on our hands.
Next!
The victims didn't help commit the crime. But that doesn't mean the killer didn't have help.
Say it in red! "There was only one culprit involved in their murders; no accomplices."
After this, we'll have something to work with.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
...
...
...
I refuse. Create a blue truth if you want a response.
<Satehi> I, satehi, thought of tentacles first for entirely inappropriate, disgusting, lewd and perverted reasons
Honk
I'm afraid I'll have to leave you waiting for a little bit.
You told us that the windows in Rider's room were locked, but nothing about Sakura's. That would be pretty useful information, don't you think?
Say it in red! "The windows in both Rider and Sakura's room were closed and locked when their deaths were discovered."
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Hmm... In order to try picking up the pace a bit I'll try responding a few times throughout the day rather than one big time at the end, so people can build off their blue truths. The daily limit remains though. With that said...
Sure I'll repeat that.
"The windows in both Rider and Sakura's room were closed and locked when their deaths were discovered."
You didn't really think it would be that easy did you
<Satehi> I, satehi, thought of tentacles first for entirely inappropriate, disgusting, lewd and perverted reasons
Honk
Repeat it in red: "Ventilation ducts do not count as secret passages."
My Fanfics. Read 'em. Or not.McJon01: We all know that the real reason Archer would lose to Rider is because the events of his own Holy Grail War left him with a particular weakness toward "older sister" types.
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