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Thread: Fate/Umineko Oneshot Game

  1. #41
    Ventilation ducts do not count as secret passages. The methods with which to enter a room is via the doors or windows. No other passage X exists.
    <Satehi> I, satehi, thought of tentacles first for entirely inappropriate, disgusting, lewd and perverted reasons

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  2. #42
    Don't @ me if your fanfic doesn't even have Shirou/Illya shipping k thnx ItsaRandomUsername's Avatar
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    Thanks, that helps out.
    McJon01: We all know that the real reason Archer would lose to Rider is because the events of his own Holy Grail War left him with a particular weakness toward "older sister" types.
    My Fanfics. Read 'em. Or not.



  3. #43
    el bolb Bloble's Avatar
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    Enough of this farce.

    Your so-called truths are insulting, witch. Shoddy, rife with holes, and all too soft. But I can't be hard on you; after all, your red is only as cruel as our blue, and our strikes thus far have been hopelessly amateur.

    So enough is enough. I'm awake now, so this sub-par phrasing won't pass any longer. Those holes in your words - fill them up with red this instant, or die.

    1. The red truth about the keys Sakura and Rin were holding is incomplete, only mentioning "the room keys". Therefore, I propose: "The keys Sakura and Rider were holding when their bodies were discovered were not in fact each other's. When Sakura's body was discovered, it was holding someone else's room keys instead, and in the time between the discovery of Sakura's body and Rider's key being used to unlock Rider's door, someone swapped it for the key Sakura had actually been holding. This enables Rider's key to have been used to kill Sakura, and vice versa, without creating a closed room."

    2. After all, it would be weird if people could instantly recognize the each other's room keys on sight, wouldn't it? Unless they had some sort of identifier, or name tag. In fact, any identifier used could quite easily be replicated or falsified with even mundane means. In fact, I'll even go so far as to propose it as a truth: "It is possible to falsify the appearance of room keys, and it is possible for people to mistake one key for another, so the only ways to confirm which key belongs to which door are to use that key to unlock that door, eliminate all the other possible keys by process of elimination, or to state it in red. In this manner, any key that hasn't been confirmed as belonging to a room in red cannot be guaranteed to be what it appears as, allowing it to exist outside the locked rooms and freely unlock and lock the aforementioned doors. Therefore, since they weren't used to unlock any doors, one cannot guarantee that Sakura's key in the first round, Rin and Saber's keys in the second round, and Ilya's key in the third round are what they were purported to be."

    3. Your truth about door destruction is also far too short. Expand it to include windows, or I'll propose that "It is possible to damage or destroy windows, and hide or repair that destruction. In fact, the killer used this technique to plant a key in the room of a murder victim, thus falsifying a locked room."

    4. As for the second night... my blue won't die so easily. I can amend it in an instant. Strike to behead, or don't strike at all! "Saber and Rin may have not been living when their bodies were discovered in the morning, but their method of death hasn't been specified. They could have been poisoned during that night's dinner and died in their sleep without anyone intruding into their rooms. Of course, there are dozens of ways to poison someone, with shady drugs being the least of them. Shirou and Archer, then, could have still planted the stakes in the corpses' throats to misdirect the investigation!"

    5. You thought I was done? Nope, one more. "Even a nonfatal wound, if left untreated, can result in death. Therefore, if someone were locked in their room with a killer waiting outside, they would have no recourse but to bleed to death slowly. Such a method could be used to murder someone without causing a fatal wound. Furthermore, your truth about fatal wounds only applies to the third round, so Sakura and Rider, after swapping keys and while wounded, could have suffered fatal wounds, locked their doors, and died."

    This is just the beginning. Once you patch up that shoddy truth of yours, I'll face you seriously.

  4. #44
    Spoiler:


    Looks like we're past the halfway point, what do we have today-

    "Saber and Rin may have not been living when their bodies were discovered in the morning, but their method of death hasn't been specified. They could have been poisoned during that night's dinner and died in their sleep without anyone intruding into their rooms. Of course, there are dozens of ways to poison someone, with shady drugs being the least of them. Shirou and Archer, then, could have still planted the stakes in the corpses' throats to misdirect the investigation!"


    Spoiler:




    -tch. It is effective. No, this is fine, if it was one-sided the entire way until time ran out it wouldn't be interesting. I still have some more tricks up my sleeve.

    "The keys Sakura and Rider were holding when their bodies were discovered were not in fact each other's. When Sakura's body was discovered, it was holding someone else's room keys instead, and in the time between the discovery of Sakura's body and Rider's key being used to unlock Rider's door, someone swapped it for the key Sakura had actually been holding. This enables Rider's key to have been used to kill Sakura, and vice versa, without creating a closed room."

    "It is possible to falsify the appearance of room keys, and it is possible for people to mistake one key for another, so the only ways to confirm which key belongs to which door are to use that key to unlock that door, eliminate all the other possible keys by process of elimination, or to state it in red. In this manner, any key that hasn't been confirmed as belonging to a room in red cannot be guaranteed to be what it appears as, allowing it to exist outside the locked rooms and freely unlock and lock the aforementioned doors. Therefore, since they weren't used to unlock any doors, one cannot guarantee that Sakura's key in the first round, Rin and Saber's keys in the second round, and Ilya's key in the third round are what they were purported to be."
    I'll slice apart both of these at once.

    The key Sakura was holding was certainly Rider's key. Furthermore I'll guarantee it. The key found in Rin's room is the key to Rin's room. The key found in Saber's room is the key the Saber's room. and the Key found in Ilya's room is the key to Caster's room.

    "It is possible to damage or destroy windows, and hide or repair that destruction. In fact, the killer used this technique to plant a key in the room of a murder victim, thus falsifying a locked room."
    Other than the windows that Rin destroyed, none of the other windows have been destroyed. The window that Rin destroyed was only destroyed after the crime scene and key had been discovered. In fact, no object passed through the window that Rin destroyed after she destroyed it.

    "Even a nonfatal wound, if left untreated, can result in death. Therefore, if someone were locked in their room with a killer waiting outside, they would have no recourse but to bleed to death slowly. Such a method could be used to murder someone without causing a fatal wound. Furthermore, your truth about fatal wounds only applies to the third round, so Sakura and Rider, after swapping keys and while wounded, could have suffered fatal wounds, locked their doors, and died."
    All wounds are fatal wounds. No nonfatal wounds were inflicted at any point during the game.
    <Satehi> I, satehi, thought of tentacles first for entirely inappropriate, disgusting, lewd and perverted reasons

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  5. #45
    Don't @ me if your fanfic doesn't even have Shirou/Illya shipping k thnx ItsaRandomUsername's Avatar
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    The First Twilight cannot be a locked room because Sakura's corpse was not actually discovered in her true guestroom. The discoverer who came across the ominous symbol on the door to "Sakura's room," Illyasviel von Einzbern, was actually an accomplice who set up the scenario, and the room was never actually Sakura's. That symbol, and Illya's ruse, was meant to be a sleight of hand, meant to distract--like a method used by magicians, not some Golden Witch Hero King, or Cute Angelic Demonic Witch Devil. The key Sakura on hand was Rider's room key, and it unlocked the door to Rider's room, where Rider's corpse was found. However, because of this deception, it is totally possible that not only the First Twilight, but ALSO the Third Twilight are not closed room murder cases! Naturally, this also means that Illya was betrayed by the other culprits, who just so happen to be the survivors of the Third Twilight: Shirou, Kotomine, Archer, Assassin, Kuzuki, and Caren!
    McJon01: We all know that the real reason Archer would lose to Rider is because the events of his own Holy Grail War left him with a particular weakness toward "older sister" types.
    My Fanfics. Read 'em. Or not.



  6. #46
    I'll slice that apart.

    The room Sakura was discovered in was her true guestroom. Ilya was not complicit in the murders of the first twilight.
    <Satehi> I, satehi, thought of tentacles first for entirely inappropriate, disgusting, lewd and perverted reasons

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  7. #47
    el bolb Bloble's Avatar
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    1. Your truths state that prior to the entry of the group that discovered Sakura and Rider's bodies into their rooms, no living humans were present in those rooms. Furthermore, you stated that there can be no hidden passageways attached to a room. I therefore propose that: Hidden compartments exist attached to the rooms, where a living human can hide without being detected. The murderer was present in this compartment when the door to Sakura's room was broken down, having stowed away there after setting up the locked room and committing the murders. This enabled them to lock the final door from the inside, creating the illusion of a locked room. This culprit later joined the group as they migrated to Rider's room, leaving Sakura's room secretly once the door had been broken down.

  8. #48
    The No Sleep King mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    lol, you are a genius Bloble.
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  9. #49
    Across This New Borderline RoydGolden's Avatar
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    At this point I can only stare in gaped astonishment at the incredible theories you guys are coming up with. Seriously, this passed way out of my league a long time ago.

  10. #50
    Now that would be an interesting trick wouldn't it?

    Unfortunately for you,

    No hidden compartments or hiding places exist in any of the rooms. Furthermore, for the first twilight, once the survivors exited Sakura's room to head to Rider's room, not a single living person entered or exited Sakura's room.
    <Satehi> I, satehi, thought of tentacles first for entirely inappropriate, disgusting, lewd and perverted reasons

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  11. #51
    el bolb Bloble's Avatar
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    Requesting some clarification on a few reds:

    Concerning 1) No hidden compartments or hiding places exist in any of the rooms. Furthermore, for the first twilight, once the survivors exited Sakura's room to head to Rider's room, not a single living person entered or exited Sakura's room.

    Repeat it in red: "No living human or corpse can be hidden in a room and remain undiscovered by living humans in that room."

    Concerning 2) After all once a fatal wound is inflicted, their life is extinguished. There is no time to perform such complex actions as fiddling with the door.

    Repeat it in red: "Once someone suffers a fatal wound, they can no longer lock or unlock doors."

    Also, say this in red as well: "Once someone suffers a fatal wound, they can no longer lock or unlock windows."

    Concerning 3) Ilya was not complicit in the murders of the first twilight.

    Say it in red: "Ilya was not complicit in any of the culprit's machinations surrounding the murders of the first twilight, including those that had nothing to do with the actual act of murder. For example, she did not help the killer to cover their tracks."

    Concerning 4) Sakura had Sakura's key at the time of her murder, and Rider had Rider's key at the time of her murder.

    Repeat it in red: "Sakura had the key to her own room the time of her own murder. Rider had the key to her own room at the time of her own murder."

    Concerning 5) No hidden compartments or hiding places exist in any of the rooms.

    Say it in red: "A person or corpse cannot hide in any of the rooms without being discovered by those investigating it."

    And finally, 6) Both the corpses of Sakura and Rider were holding the room keys in their hands when the survivors opened the door.

    Repeat it in red: "When her corpse was discovered, Sakura was holding Rider's key. When her corpse was discovered, Rider was holding Sakura's key."

  12. #52


    You want me to repeat some statements in red? Sure thing, I'll repeat them.

    Sure thing, I'll repeat them.

    "No living human or corpse can be hidden in a room and remain undiscovered by living humans in that room."


    Acknowledged. No living human or corpse can be hidden in a room and remain undiscovered by living humans in that room.

    Repeat it in red: "Once someone suffers a fatal wound, they can no longer lock or unlock doors."

    Also, say this in red as well: "Once someone suffers a fatal wound, they can no longer lock or unlock windows."


    Acknowledged. Once summon suffers a fatal wound, any followup action whatsoever is impossible. This includes locking or unlocking any doors or windows.

    "Ilya was not complicit in any of the culprit's machinations surrounding the murders of the first twilight, including those that had nothing to do with the actual act of murder. For example, she did not help the killer to cover their tracks."


    Acknowledged. Ilya did not aid the first twilight either intentionally or accidentally.

    Repeat it in red: "Sakura had the key to her own room the time of her own murder. Rider had the key to her own room at the time of her own murder."


    Acknowledged. At the time of death, Sakura possessed the key to her own room, and Rider possessed the key to her own room.

    "A person or corpse cannot hide in any of the rooms without being discovered by those investigating it."


    I feel like this is covered by the first truth but sure. Acknowledged. A person or corpse cannot remain hidden in any room when survivors investigate it.

    Repeat it in red: "When her corpse was discovered, Sakura was holding Rider's key. When her corpse was discovered, Rider was holding Sakura's key."


    ...



    I refuse. Go ahead and fire off that blue truth. Let's see if you have better luck this time.
    <Satehi> I, satehi, thought of tentacles first for entirely inappropriate, disgusting, lewd and perverted reasons

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  13. #53
    el bolb Bloble's Avatar
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    Alright. Then I'll revive it. That blue truth you've been cutting down since the very beginning.

    "The room key Rider was holding when her body was discovered wasn't Sakura's! It belonged to someone else, and Kotomine Kirei, who was actually in possession of Sakura's key, swapped it with the one Rider was holding when he first approached the body! The locked room was thus created by locking Rider's corpse in her room using her key, then planting it on Sakura and locking Sakura in her own room using Sakura's key. Thus, this locked room is false."

  14. #54
    Seems like you're getting somewhere

  15. #55
    "The room key Rider was holding when her body was discovered wasn't Sakura's! It belonged to someone else, and Kotomine Kirei, who was actually in possession of Sakura's key, swapped it with the one Rider was holding when he first approached the body! The locked room was thus created by locking Rider's corpse in her room using her key, then planting it on Sakura and locking Sakura in her own room using Sakura's key. Thus, this locked room is false."


    It's taken you all a pretty long time to come this far. But I suppose with enough times it's possible for even the slowest to crawl their way to the finish line.

    I'll allow it for now.






    Spoiler:


    Spoiler:




    2 of the 3 twilight solved. But 2/3rds of the time has elapsed. A single gate blocks your path to victory, but will you really be able to overcome it...?
    <Satehi> I, satehi, thought of tentacles first for entirely inappropriate, disgusting, lewd and perverted reasons

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  16. #56
    el bolb Bloble's Avatar
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    The third twilight has been left relatively unexplored, because on the surface it's just an expansion of the first twilight. So, with that logic, we should handle it a similar way, no?

    I do hope that isn't the case, though.

    1. "One of the murder victims didn't in fact have the key to the next room in the 'cycle' in their possession at time of discovery of their corpse. Using a stealthy key swap, like in the first twilight, the culprit falsified the locked room murders and created an illusory circle."

    And now for an actual guess:

    2. "Ilya's room wasn't actually locked when it was discovered in the morning. Shirou, as the culprit in the second twilight and the first to test the door, would have plenty of motivation to falsify another locked room. And, as her brother, he would have the means to gain her trust despite the hostile atmosphere of the mansion. The rest of the cycle was thus falsified after the murders of the other three, and some swapping of keys. After locking the door for the night, Ilya later unlocked it to let in her brother, and was murdered for it!"

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