How does it follow from Archer being GAR that Alexander is not?Originally Posted by terraablaze
How does it follow from Archer being GAR that Alexander is not?
Archer originated GAR with his fight with Berserker, an imposible fight in which he killed 5 times (yep, I'm using the anime, as it's the anime the source of the meme GAR, IIRC) before dying to save Rin, Saber and Shirou
Then we have Shirou, who sacrifices himself unleashing the GARm to destroy Berserker (the same guy who the "original" GAR couldn't defeat), that, in one bad end, was able to defeat the almighty Alter, and who was able to beat "bear hands" Kotomine in his own game (fighting with Bear Hands). And then punched C'thullu to the extinction using Excalibur, only to be nerfed by the author and changing that to "almost Excalibur but not quite Excalibur". Not to mention that Shirou defeated by himself the nearly invincible King of Heroes, was able to fend of Kuzuki in their first clash (something that not even Saber managed to do) and even convinced the loyal to a fault Cu Chulainn to help him just by being Shirou. And then he told Lancer to keep his hands away of his girl.
Besides that, Shirou is so GAR that even Archer is GAR for Shirou. UBW proved that.
Spoiler:
Does this mean that GARness fades over time?
I wonder how GAR Shirou was as a kid...
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1: He destroys himself to kill Berserker.
2: He wouldn't even have managed to kill Berserker if Ilya hadn't come out.
3: He was using an asspull move, whereas Archer was using his own techniques.
Which he did with a technique from Archer.in one bad end, was able to defeat the almighty Alter
Beat Kotomine? I think you've been playing the wrong game here.and who was able to beat "bear hands" Kotomine in his own game (fighting with Bear Hands).
Archer killed Kuzuki. Shirou just barely survived.was able to fend of Kuzuki in their first clash (something that not even Saber managed to do)
You mean the Lancer that was following orders to keep Rin alive? The Lancer that said he'd team up with them first?convinced the loyal to a fault Cu Chulainn to help him just by being Shirou.
Because Iskander's death was a pointless heroic (which achieved absolutely nothing), whereas Archer was vital in all three routes.How does it follow from Archer being GAR that Alexander is not?
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It can be argued that since "GAR for Archer" originated from the anime, long before most people had even played a single route of the game, their impression of Archer was not entirely complete.
I should make one of those PW Fan-Trials using the topic of Archer's GAR.
I'd just have to copy-paste the text!
<Spinach> Yes Verg
<Spinach> I need this
<Spinach> Yessss
<Satehi> don't do it malgos
<Satehi> don't
<Satehi> yamete
<@RacingeR> Laputa would only fit if it was Kratos
It was a pretty complete impression of him from Fate though.
He really is only going to act the way he did in Unlimited Blade Works because his younger self is there, that sounds like a rather unusual set of circumstances. And you are going to use it to judge the entirety of his behavioral repertoire from this instance.
I imagine if you made an Archer play through in Fate/Extra (who indisputably always had his dialogue written by Nasu so inb4 Hyarion) he would act quite different without seeing the living breathing reminder of his eternal failure macking on his High school crush(es).
He is still kind of a dick though.
"Oh, hey Master, you want to know my real name? Can't tell you that, it seems something went wrong with my summoning and I've got memory loss. Well, okay, not really, can't believe you bought that, actually I just don't see any benefit in telling you so calling me Archer will be fine."
To be fair he's right. I can't imagine any benefit from telling you. "I am Emiya Shirou...What do you mean you have no idea who the fuck I am?"
The Hero Who Nobody Knows indeed.
If we are talking about his teasing and cynicism, not sure I would but him in the 'dick' category for weak stuff like that.
Nah, none of the Servants tell you their name at first, but Archer's the only one that feeds you a lie, then laughs at you for being a dumb asshole when you believe him.
Well, maybe that's not exactly how it happened.
Last edited by Mcjon01; May 1st, 2011 at 07:41 PM.
Did Archer ever outright lie though?
In the second (or third, whatever) day when Rin asks Archer about his true identity, she phrased as "do you remember who you are? and do you remember your past?". To which Archer replies "no, my past is still hazy".
Which essentially ignores the first question and answers the second by way of "well, I can barely remember Kiritsugu's face so no I can't remember (all of) my past".
Right, Archer who wants to kill his past-self because he regrets his choices? He was GAR when he was being Shirou again, when he realizes that the ideals that he upheld when he was still living were and still worth fighting for.
Not his fault that Archer didn't use it in all the game.
The one who stands at the end of the battle is the one who wins. I remember Shirou alive after Kotomine's deathBeat Kotomine? I think you've been playing the wrong game here.
Not reinforced Kuzuki doesn't count. Even Rin in a Melee combat would have win there (true, Rin with martial arts is very deadly, but not as deadly as Shirou with K&B)Archer killed Kuzuki. Shirou just barely survived.
Spoiler:
So GAR is being lucky, news to me.
It clearly states that Kuzuki's punches would take off a human head, Archer just takes the hit and it nudges his head to the side a little.
Assuming Rin and Shirou could beat Kuzuki it would probably be slim pickings seeing how he is a vastly superior fighter to both of them, being a trained assassin and all.
No, I'm saying that shirou won that battle because he was alive at the end, and undefeated. He was GAR enough to fight with his fist against an enemy that outclassed him in that type of combat in every stat except endurance
Kuzuki reinforced by Medea, one of the most powerful spellcasters ever, is able to take off a human head punching. Not-reinforced Kuzuki is just a good, not great, good, martial artist, but not even on Taiga's level. Rin and Shirou would destroy him in one hit. Maybe two if they don't reinforce themselves.It clearly states that Kuzuki's punches would take off a human head, Archer just takes the hit and it nudges his head to the side a little.
Assuming Rin and Shirou could beat Kuzuki it would probably be slim pickings seeing how he is a vastly superior fighter to both of them, being a trained assassin and all.
Spoiler:
You forgot when he beat Kotomine in Fate route.
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He was essentially dead had Kotomine not dropped dead of chance because of a heart attack, they make that quite clear.
From the scene where Kuzuki dies:
Any ordinary man would have his skull crushed, but Archer does not dodge it.
His head moves from the impact.
end quote
Taiga wins because of EX luck.
And as Kuzuki points out, even reinforced Rin is incapable of killing someone in one hit, which is why she sucks in his eyes. She would be better off using magic.
@Type
Shirou had Avalon, and I can only assume Kotomine was in complete shock from witnessing someone that good at projection since he mumbles something about projection shades of Nrvnsqr who are you. So yeah that is impressive in its own right.
So? HFShirou has swords and far better physical stats.
Hope Rides With His Godly Ronin/Cowboy Brother In Law
Now I just have no idea what you are talking about.
Quoting Alter saber in Sparks liner, he was alive at the end of the battle while his oponent was dead so he won.
True, in the suicide attemp against Archer he was still reinforced, as his fist hadn't lost any strength yet (in Shirou's words). But at the moment Archer has still almost all his strenght and his Eye of the mind (true). Things like Kuzuki's snake fist doesn't work against Archer. And, as the novel states, no one can stand against a Servant just by being "superhuman". One must have a trumph card to do that. And Kuzuki, at that point, didn't have any trump card, just his body reinforced to superhuman levels.From the scene where Kuzuki dies:
Any ordinary man would have his skull crushed, but Archer does not dodge it.
His head moves from the impact.
end quote
Taiga wins because of EX luck.
And as Kuzuki points out, even reinforced Rin is incapable of killing someone in one hit, which is why she sucks in his eyes. She would be better off using magic.
As I said, a non reinforced Kuzuki isn't a match against a magus or even against Taiga (Taiga can fight as an equal against Ryougi shiki when it comes to skill, by the way, so no, she doesn't win because his "Lol, EX luck" that was, by the way, just a joke)
As for Rin... who said I wasn't talking about magic. The only thing I said was that they would destroy him in one hit... maybe two if they don't reinforce themselves. Also, Caster is still more resilient than a puny normal human by far. Servants are just that powerful.
If a battle hardened executor can be surprised by his enemy, then he doesn't deserver to win. Shirou won that battle fair and straight, as Kotomine was using the grail to attack Shirou.@Type
Shirou had Avalon, and I can only assume Kotomine was in complete shock from witnessing someone that good at projection since he mumbles something about projection shades of Nrvnsqr who are you. So yeah that is impressive in its own right.
Spoiler:
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