How did YOU get into Type-Moon?

[eddyak]

Quoting Alter saber in Sparks liner, he was alive at the end of the battle while his oponent was dead so he won.

Actually, Shirou was the "dead" one in Sparks Liner.

True, in the suicide attemp against Archer he was still reinforced, as his fist hadn't lost any strength yet (in Shirou's words). But at the moment Archer has still almost all his strenght and his Eye of the mind (true). Things like Kuzuki's snake fist doesn't work against Archer. And, as the novel states, no one can stand against a Servant just by being "superhuman". One must have a trumph card to do that. And Kuzuki, at that point, didn't have any trump card, just his body reinforced to superhuman levels.

Whut. Archer had just tanked Gay Bulge, showered Caster with a rain of Noble Phantasms, and was pretty much running on empty. And you've obviously forgotten how Kuzuki managed to kick Saber's arse with no trump card.

Also, Caster is still more resilient than a puny normal human by far. Servants are just that powerful.

There's nothing canon that says that Servants are all more sturdy/powerful than humans. You're forgetting that all Heroic Spirits are humans.

[Ergast]

I was quoting Saber in sparks liner, where, even after being cutted in half by shirou, she was the winner for surviving while shirou was dead

ARcher regained at least a good deal of his strenght, if he was able to cast UBW, fight Shirou, tank Gil's sword raind, endure another day critically wounded and sword rain the grail.

And yes, the Servants are more sturdy and powerful than humans. even a E rank is over human capacities, let me remind you. They are the pinacle of the human capacity, for pete's sake. Only the real monsters of TM (in other words, every important character who is either a magus, a church executor or a main character) can hope to reach E or D in some stats, except magic energy... maybe, and only if we talk about real freaks when it comes to magic (The Tohsaka sisters, Ciel, maybe yumizuka, Shirou full trained... people like that).

[terraablaze]

I was quoting Saber in sparks liner, where, even after being cutted in half by shirou, she was the winner for surviving while shirou was dead

ARcher regained at least a good deal of his strenght, if he was able to cast UBW, fight Shirou, tank Gil's sword raind, endure another day critically wounded and sword rain the grail.

And yes, the Servants are more sturdy and powerful than humans. even a E rank is over human capacities, let me remind you. They are the pinacle of the human capacity, for pete's sake. Only the real monsters of TM (in other words, every important character who is either a magus, a church executor or a main character) can hope to reach E or D in some stats, except magic energy... maybe, and only if we talk about real freaks when it comes to magic (The Tohsaka sisters, Ciel, maybe yumizuka, Shirou full trained... people like that).

They really are not anymore durable than normal humans per say. There is no stat that gives you steel skin like Berserker, if you are referring to Endurance it means endurance also known as how long you can exert yourself before you get tired. The reason Servants are hard to kill even for other Servants is that they only really need their head and heart, enhanced healing ability, and certain skills like Battle Continuation that allow you to fight when you normally would not. So when True Assassin gets every bone broken in his body by Rider it is not that big of a deal like it would be for a human because he is in no danger of dying from internal bleeding or pierced organs and can patiently wait to heal in the next few days, presumably after chomping on some souls.

[Ergast]

They are hard to hurt even with magic, or magically enhanced weapons, for Pete's sake. And that's canon, it's explicitely said in the novel. So yeah, they are way more resilient than normal humans, they can endure way more damage than a normal human. And then we have freaking Zerker.

[terraablaze]

They are hard to hurt even with magic, or magically enhanced weapons, for Pete's sake. And that's canon, it's explicitely said in the novel. So yeah, they are way more resilient than normal humans, they can endure way more damage than a normal human. And then we have freaking Zerker.

That is more damage resistance combined with spell resistance than say lots of hit die with a huge Constitution bonus. If you get a solid hit on there heart they die the end.

[eddyak]

ARcher regained at least a good deal of his strenght, if he was able to cast UBW, fight Shirou, tank Gil's sword raind, endure another day critically wounded and sword rain the grail.

By the time of the Shirou/Archer fight, he was at less than 10%. He couldn't have recovered shit, unless he chomped down on souls- and Archer might be a dick, but I doubt he'd do that.

And yes, the Servants are more sturdy and powerful than humans. even a E rank is over human capacities, let me remind you. They are the pinacle of the human capacity, for pete's sake. Only the real monsters of TM (in other words, every important character who is either a magus, a church executor or a main character) can hope to reach E or D in some stats, except magic energy... maybe, and only if we talk about real freaks when it comes to magic (The Tohsaka sisters, Ciel, maybe yumizuka, Shirou full trained... people like that).

They're ranked E either because there's no F rank, or because they're at E rank.

[agentzero]

if you are referring to Endurance it means endurance also known as how long you can exert yourself before you get tired.

Actually that stat is CON, short for constitution, as in how tough your body is. So I'd say it's a safe bet to say that it refers to durability. Especially considering it goes up for Saber Alter, and the reasoning given is "her defense is increased because of the massive amount of prana that always cloaks her regardless of her will".

If you had to name a stat was was effectively "stamina" for Servants, it'd probably be MGI, since that's their fuel.

[terraablaze]

Actually that stat is CON, short for constitution, as in how tough your body is. So I'd say it's a safe bet to say that it refers to durability. Especially considering it goes up for Saber Alter, and the reasoning given is "her defense is increased because of the massive amount of prana that always cloaks her regardless of her will".

If you had to name a stat was was effectively "stamina" for Servants, it'd probably be MGI, since that's their fuel.

I thought skills were tracked separately from stats, also given infinite magic energy her endurance would still go up. Really making it there durability makes almost zero sense to me since it never really comes into use, Servants surviving attacks is always explained by Battle Continuation, super healing, stuff like that never oh yeah he is really tough.
Shouldn't Lancer have A Endurance if that were the case?

[agentzero]

Well, CON is like physical durability. Battle Continuation doesn't increase that, it just let's them survive/fight with wounds that would normally be fatal/debilitating.

If it was stamina in they way you're talking about, Alter would have EX or at the least A++, since she'd never run out.

[Mcjon01]

Really making it there durability makes almost zero sense to me since it never really comes into use, Servants surviving attacks is always explained by Battle Continuation, super healing, stuff like that never oh yeah he is really tough.

Nah, CON is how much damage they can take. If Fate were an RPG, it'd probably be best to think of it as the stat you'd derive HP from.

[terraablaze]

Nah, CON is how much damage they can take. If Fate were an RPG, it'd probably be best to think of it as the stat you'd derive HP from.

What is this CON you people keep speaking about?

@agent zero
Since they have muscles I assumed after exerting themselves for while they would have to repair them, since muscles break down with heavy use. That is what I thought END was.

[Mcjon01]

CON is the name of the stat you keep calling END.

[terraablaze]

CON is the name of the stat you keep calling END.

That is what mirror moon called it so that is the name I stuck with I guess. Why does Nasu use Constitution?

Is that stuff in CM3 too? Why is food no longer translating? I presume school

[Mcjon01]

Is that what they called it? I just use the names on Fuyuki; Nasu calls it 耐久.

But yeah, CM3 defines it literally as "how much damage they can take".

[terraablaze]

Is that what they called it? I just use the names on Fuyuki; Nasu calls it 耐久.

But yeah, CM3 defines it literally as "how much damage they can take".

My mind is full of grail mud. Never really ever seen it put to use then as far as I can tell. Or at least it would be difficult to sort out from all the other bonuses to defense they get.

[agentzero]

@agent zero
Since they have muscles I assumed after exerting themselves for while they would have to repair them, since muscles break down with heavy use. That is what I thought END was.

I dunno if Servants even have problems like that, considering their bodies are spiritual and not physical, but if they do, they'd repair themselves with prana (MGI) in the same way humans use food and oxygen for their upkeep. Don't think you'd need a whole new stat for it.

CON is pretty simply just how tough/durable they are. Heracles has got high CON because of his steel skin, while Saber gets it from Prana Burst (like her speed and strength).

As for seeing it "put to use", it's one of those base stats like STR, isn't it? You don't see Nasu telling us every time Berserker swings his axe-sword how awesome an A rank STR stat is, do you? CON is pretty much the same. It's "put to use" every time a Servant gets hit. Well, except Berserker.

[Ergast]

That is more damage resistance combined with spell resistance than say lots of hit die with a huge Constitution bonus. If you get a solid hit on there heart they die the end.

So... you are saying that Archer isn't more resilient than a normal human, even if he can survive after being skewered twice by gil's sword rain?

Or hell, Caster surviving Rin's magical charged fists without even coughing blood. Or the best example, as the only servant with E rank in endurance, Kojiroh being able to stand and talk after being slashed by Saber's Excalibur. A normal human would have died in the act. He, weakened and without prana, survived a few seconds.

Sure, the Servants are as weak as normal humans.

[terraablaze]

So... you are saying that Archer isn't more resilient than a normal human, even if he can survive after being skewered twice by gil's sword rain?

Or hell, Caster surviving Rin's magical charged fists without even coughing blood. Or the best example, as the only servant with E rank in endurance, Kojiroh being able to stand and talk after being slashed by Saber's Excalibur. A normal human would have died in the act. He, weakened and without prana, survived a few seconds.

Sure, the Servants are as weak as normal humans.

Archer is made of swords, he is different from the examples you were using to argue Rin and Shirou powerlevels.
Caster was very nearly killed by Rin, you don't always cough blood from internal injuries.
Kojiro was never hit by Excalibur.

Also I am afraid to ask since this relates to my first post here but what does it say about Agility?
Please don't let it be speed and only speed, oh please oh please oh please

[Mcjon01]

Agility is agility. And reaction speed. Pretty self-explanatory stat, all told.

[terraablaze]

Agility is agility. And reaction speed. Pretty self-explanatory stat, all told.

phew
Well I guess I, dodged that bullet!