It’s all 魔 though and 魔 is a distortion in providence so no matter what inviting it into your life means forsaking normal happiness
It’s all 魔 though and 魔 is a distortion in providence so no matter what inviting it into your life means forsaking normal happiness
Get out of Mcjon Nasu
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or while you're there tell us about those Servant alignments
dartboard or roulette? Maybe a good old fashioned Patience?
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
A teacher is supposed to make said thing a teachable moment, not a humiliation moment. Besides, Kayneth did very little actual teaching in that moment or ever, much like other magi teachers before Waver. Also, how can you even make that judgement on Waver's thesis without ever getting too many details on it? In any case, based on his later skill in deducing the mechanics behind magic and mystery in general, I'd say he was sort of on to something, even if he was dead wrong that effort and training of one's circuits could ever allow him to catch up to the old families. Kayneth was right in that regard, and Waver acknowledged that.Originally Posted by Menwearpink
Besides, before the incident, Waver was hinted at least to have respected Kayneth as a magus, so if Kayneth had made it a teachable moment, Waver may have begrudgingly listened.
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That's precisely what I meant. If you just want superpowers, just become a spellcaster.
Last edited by SirGauoftheSquareTable; September 22nd, 2018 at 11:50 AM.
Not really, you can’t become a spellcaster just because, you need to be born with circuits and even then the amount you have determines what you would be able to do. You can use Magecraft even if you don’t follow the Mages path, it even then it’s not something you can say you just want to become.
also Kirei’s stuff was also sometching he was born with in a way. His style of Bajiquan isn’t normal Bajiquan, it’s mage/heretical slaying Bajiquan, something you wouldn’t actually see normal practitioners doing unless there Martial art legends like Shuwen Li. All of that was something he could practice and refine thanks to you know being part of a secret branch of the church whose main job is being Monster slayers.
"Only in my company, will you not be a monster"
anywhere than here
Well, yeah, I presupposed that statement with the assumption you were born with circuits and decided to use magecraft.
What
He did read it, which would be enough to see the overall idea of it. It's the same when you read any other paper, you skim first and only if it's gripping then do you read the full thing.Also, how can you even make that judgement on Waver's thesis without ever getting too many details on it?
He didn't acknowledge that. That's the entire point. Waver is so arrogant and insistent on his own way and ideas that he wouldn't have any of these traditions putting him down. Seriously, just read his parts in the first volume. The narrator is basically mocking him for how arrogant and blind he is.In any case, based on his later skill in deducing the mechanics behind magic and mystery in general, I'd say he was sort of on to something, even if he was dead wrong that effort and training of one's circuits could ever allow him to catch up to the old families. Kayneth was right in that regard, and Waver acknowledged that.
Also, the stuff he does to find Caster's lair isn't some great genius thing he came up with because he's so talented. He literally says it's the most basic, and worst method there is. He had to do it the worst way because he can't do it any better. Because he's a shit mage.
I was talking about Menwearpink, not Kayneth.
I meant Waver acknowledged it later, once he got older and wiser. Seriously, fucking context man.
Also, while it wasn't some great genius thing to do, as Iskandar himself said, there's no reason not to be proud of it because sometimes the simple ways are the best.
Satsuki's a psychic with the ability of "can become a really gud vampire"
kind of like kurogiri's psychic ability in a way
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
I don’t have a problem with anyone disagreeing with it, but it’s getting off the wrong foot denouncing other cultures off as stupid just because it doesn’t make sense to you.
BL Character Defining Lines
Yeah, but this is my problem with your take on Waver vs Kayneth as it appears right now. You're comparing a Waver who got to live on from the war, learn from his experiences there, grow up to become an adult (where when you go from adolescens to adulthood you could argue you develop and mature regardless) etc, to a Kayneth whose background you don't actually really know, who had everything, and I mean literally everything, taken from him during the HGW, and who died, not because of his own arrogance or attitude, but because he was targeted specifically by the one guy he couldn't possibly stand against, just because he was deemed that much of a threat. He died, and consequently didn't have a chance to learn from his experiences in the war, and never got to mature because of them.
Comparing adult Waver to HGW Kayneth is so weird because of this, because at the end of the war Waver was still very much an arrogant little shitty kid, and it took years for that to change into what he is like in Case Files.
"Magi culture" that is so much talked about is really only clocktower and clocktower affiliated places.
For instance Atlas has a much more isolationist culture.
Generally american magi are much more organisational.
And there are even countries where people who have the potential to use magecraft are oppressed and used solely as soldiers.
There are also the Japanese Demon Hunting Organization that empolyed magecraft as well.
Critiquing "magi culture" is the same as critiquing "European culture" and then saying it applies to everyone around the world
Last edited by You; September 22nd, 2018 at 01:59 PM.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
also they're not real. they are fictional characters. almost 300 replies deep in the thread, some people still don't get this. it doesn't matter if you think they're stupid or mean or whatever. they're not real people. you are not witness to their behaviour in any meaningful sense.
there is text. ask yourself what the text does. how it works. what its formal characteristics are. try to come up with an opinion on the text that doesn't reduce to "I didn't like it when X happened."
かん汗ぎゅう牛じゅう充とう棟
Expresses the exceeding size of one's library.
Books are extremely many, loaded on an oxcart the ox will sweat.
At home piled to the ridgepole of the house, from this meaning.
Read out as 「Ushi ni ase shi, munagi ni mitsu.」
Source: 柳宗元「其為書，處則充棟宇，出則汗牛馬。」— Tang Dynasty
Something something meaningful empathetic connections to characters is the essence of enjoying fiction something
Although I guess it would be better if the connection wasn't based on preconceived bias and misunderstanding, but
Even Baby Waver had one trait Kayneth always lacked. An ability to grow. Beneath his bluster, it's clear he was aware of his own mediocrity, and the Grail War really hit that point home with him. Even midway through, you can see it, and he became much more open to suggestion and critique by Rider as he accepted that he was not prepared in the slightest. By the end, he's well on his way to becoming his adult self.
All we really know of in great detail is European magi culture though, so I'm going off what we know. Atlas, I am honestly far more neutral towards mostly because they aren't as stuck up and hung over the Root as their Clocktower counterparts, and as for others, well...Besides, Demon Hunters aren't magi, are they? They're just magic users.
We get this, we just choose to address it as it may apply to real life because text also has real, human dimensions by its very design, as that's how people get hooked in. If you really are advocating a purely formalist approach to reading text, then that's missing part of the point of reading. Reading, especially reading fiction, is also putting a part of yourself in the characters' shoes and trying to make sense of the setting and what not and how you can apply said lessons to your understanding of the world around you.
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So much this. Besides, my bias wasn't preconceived, it was post-conceived.
Kayneth showed an ability to grow too.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
When? At the end?
He killed Risei
He grew in a bad way but that's still growth.Things had progressed to this point but he had only one… compared to the opponents who had not used their Command Seals, he was already in a disadvantaged position. And the Masters of Saber and Rider had already obtained new Command Seals; these circumstances definitely could not be ignored.
The assassination of the supervisor would undoubtedly cause a stir, but in this Heaven's Feel, there were magi other than himself who liked to use small props such as handguns. The primary suspect would thus be the filthy rat employed by the Einzberns.
Kayneth could not suppress the satisfied laugh that flooded forth from deep in his throat. He was immersed in the ecstasy of regaining his status as a Master. For the assassination of the supervisor, an action that made the dignity and pride of Lord El-Melloi plummet down to the floor, he had no intention of self-reproach.
Also its kind of weird how it says that Waver and Kiritsugu got an extra command spell. Imma check if that's a typo
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The fujou were shrine maidens and itako so they're probably more magi than mere magic users.
They're magi in the same way you'd call a shaman more of a magus than a magic user.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
I think savepoints has the right idea. Kayneth is dead in the dirt and I don't understand where these immediate evaluations of his character inside and outside the context of F/Z is coming from besides bias since it's coming off as flanderizing some specific parts of his personality while conveniently ignoring the context. Even if your looking at him as a scumbag his actions have always made sense for himself, the circumstances, and the setting. It'd only seem illogical or disagreeable if you break the established continuity and make a suggestion that adheres to your own ideology to prove the point, which I don't think makes sense for the fictional universe that it should be taking place in.
BL Character Defining Lines
I don't deny that there was an internal logic to his actions, I'm just deriding said logic. Besides, aren't we kind of meant to relate fictional ideologies to our own in order to comprehend/enjoy works of fiction?
Well, basically put, I feel that much too much of it is being disregarded in respect to the work in question here. Much of the discussion then boils down to how you feel about the particular matter and that's something that might just not budged on.
BL Character Defining Lines
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