Could Sola-Ui have loved/fallen in love with Kayneth if the dude was less of an asshole from the start?

[Imperial]

In BL terms, which are indeed the only terms in which you can properly interpret Iskandar, the problem is that they are both what we call a sou-seme. Now, Iskandar can do a bunch of different roles, but Keyneth is a sad combination hetare and ore-sama in particular. This has the unfortunate consequence of him being sort of narratively pigeonholed into a pathetically dominant role, as the writer did not and never needed to provide him with hooks with which to become a decent uke.

Basically if Keyneth gets done in the ass but is fine with it, then the story sucks because the characterization did not allow this to make sense. If he is not fine with it, but getting back at the seme is impossible, then you don't really have a relationship, do you?

Who knew butt stuff could be so complicated?

[Altaris]

Waver is a brat, Kayneth did nothing wrong

If there's anyone in the trio of Diarmuid, Sola and Kayneth that doesn't deserve the shitty fate that the edgelord incarnate Kiritsugu inflicted on them, it's Kayneth

[Mcjon01]

In BL terms, which are indeed the only terms in which you can properly interpret Iskandar, the problem is that they are both what we call a sou-seme. Now, Iskandar can do a bunch of different roles, but Keyneth is a sad combination hetare and ore-sama in particular. This has the unfortunate consequence of him being sort of narratively pigeonholed into a pathetically dominant role, as the writer did not and never needed to provide him with hooks with which to become a decent uke.

Basically if Keyneth gets done in the ass but is fine with it, then the story sucks because the characterization did not allow this to make sense. If he is not fine with it, but getting back at the seme is impossible, then you don't really have a relationship, do you?

I’m sorry but this is a face only an uke is allowed to make
The potential is there

[Walnut Sparks]

And the fact that Kayneth apparently didn't notice or care that his wife of several years had no emotions or desires to speak of, even if he did supposedly "love" her, says very little of his merit as a husband.

Even if he noticed, it might've been tricky to do anything about it. Breaking off the engagement could have political repercussions. If I were in his situation, the best that I could think to do would be to use my deep pockets to give her a superficially pleasant life, and just keep hoping nothing goes terribly wrong. (Admittedly, I am not exactly a brilliantly creative mind.)

[Kotonoha]

In BL terms, which are indeed the only terms in which you can properly interpret Iskandar, the problem is that they are both what we call a sou-seme. Now, Iskandar can do a bunch of different roles, but Keyneth is a sad combination hetare and ore-sama in particular. This has the unfortunate consequence of him being sort of narratively pigeonholed into a pathetically dominant role, as the writer did not and never needed to provide him with hooks with which to become a decent uke.

Basically if Keyneth gets done in the ass but is fine with it, then the story sucks because the characterization did not allow this to make sense. If he is not fine with it, but getting back at the seme is impossible, then you don't really have a relationship, do you?

The more seme-like a character seems the more suitable he is to be an uke because of the principle of gap moe, this is the absolute basics

[Wandering Swordwoman]

By their very nature though, Servants, with the exception of those in whom the whole magical falling in love thing is baked into their legend, should be able to easily resist. Besides, we have Brynhildr, who is a weird, sad love freak, and we also got Medea, whose life was basically spent on Aphrodite's leash.

Doesn't medea hate handsome men?

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I’m sorry but this is a face only an uke is allowed to make
The potential is there

That face....
should I glad Kiri shot him?

[Toa of Gallifrey]

He survives in AZO

[Magikewl]

Kayneth being a top is OOC

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

In BL terms, which are indeed the only terms in which you can properly interpret Iskandar, the problem is that they are both what we call a sou-seme. Now, Iskandar can do a bunch of different roles, but Keyneth is a sad combination hetare and ore-sama in particular. This has the unfortunate consequence of him being sort of narratively pigeonholed into a pathetically dominant role, as the writer did not and never needed to provide him with hooks with which to become a decent uke.

Basically if Keyneth gets done in the ass but is fine with it, then the story sucks because the characterization did not allow this to make sense. If he is not fine with it, but getting back at the seme is impossible, then you don't really have a relationship, do you?

Yeah, but even from a non-BL perspective, it wouldn't have worked out. Sure, Iskandar would have initially given Kayneth a chance, but after Kayneth refuses attempt after attempt at cooperation and proves himself to be the ass he is, I assume Iskandar will force Kayneth to use Command Seals to get him to do anything, and even if he does follow orders, he will malinger like hell.

Also, from a BL perspective, Kayneth is too old for Iskandar's version.

Even if he noticed, it might've been tricky to do anything about it. Breaking off the engagement could have political repercussions. If I were in his situation, the best that I could think to do would be to use my deep pockets to give her a superficially pleasant life, and just keep hoping nothing goes terribly wrong. (Admittedly, I am not exactly a brilliantly creative mind.)

I also would have treated her a little more pleasantly/respectfully, kind of the way you treat a ticking time bomb.

Doesn't medea hate handsome men?

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That face....
should I glad Kiri shot him?

I was just giving an example of a Servant whose legend involved being magically forced to fall in love.

[Mcjon01]

But seriously it’s canon that Islander would have fucked them both so in this case it’s Kayneth who would be awakening to things he had never felt before, not Sola

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

But seriously it’s canon that Islander would have fucked them both so in this case it’s Kayneth who would be awakening to things he had never felt before, not Sola

Would that have affected their Master-Servant relationship all that much? I don't know.

[Historia]

poor diarmuid lol

[Walnut Sparks]

Ever since Saber Diarmuid was shown to have the love spot sealed, I’ve had to wonder if Kayneth was figuratively spitroasted by the offending Waver and Kerry into the circumstances of summoning his Lancer form. Kayneth already got fucked over by Kerry so many times that another dramatic irony would icing.

Why take the chance, though? Was Kayneth really unable to obtain a catalyst for a decent-tier heroic spirit who didn't have magical NTR as a central part of his legend?

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Why take the chance, though? Was Kayneth really unable to obtain a catalyst for a decent-tier heroic spirit who didn't have magical NTR as a central part of his legend?

He probably was expecting to get Saber Diarmuid, tragically unaware that Kiritsugu had received Avalon, thus locking Diarmuid out of that class.

[Bobin]

I wonder. Kayneth was clearly aware of Diarmuid’s legend, but also knew that Sola was completely capable of resisting the love spot if she simply bothered. His Saber self is notably a direct upgrade and stronger, so I can accept him being considered a worthy candidate even if he’s not as reknown. It makes sense to me that Kayneth just hadn’t considered Sola’s compliance to be brainwashed before that point, which is reasonable.

[SpoonyViking]

Kayneth literally couldn't understand Diarmuid didn't have a wish for the Grail, he just wanted to serve his lord faithfully to atone for his actions in life.
The man was an idiot, is what I'm saying.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I wonder. Kayneth was clearly aware of Diarmuid’s legend, but also knew that Sola was completely capable of resisting the love spot if she simply bothered. His Saber self is notably a direct upgrade and stronger, so I can accept him being considered a worthy candidate even if he’s not as reknown. It makes sense to me that Kayneth just hadn’t considered Sola’s compliance to be brainwashed before that point, which is reasonable.

However, he immediately turned on Diarmuid the minute Sola sided with him, suspecting the love spot, which implies he was aware of the possibility, but ignored that and summoned him anyway. If he got Saber, maybe he would have had better luck, which again, he was probably banking on. Also, for a last-minute acquisition, Diarmuid is a decent Servant.

Kayneth literally couldn't understand Diarmuid didn't have a wish for the Grail, he just wanted to serve his lord faithfully to atone for his actions in life.
The man was an idiot, is what I'm saying.

It's less he couldn't understand Diarmuid's knightly conduct and more that he couldn't understand how a mere familiar could have human motivations and emotions, clearly not understanding how Heroic Spirits work. Either way, still an idiot.

[Hakuno]

Kayneth literally couldn't understand Diarmuid didn't have a wish for the Grail, he just wanted to serve his lord faithfully to atone for his actions in life.
The man was an idiot, is what I'm saying.

"I really want to serve my Lord, that's my only wis--... oh honor comes first, hello Saber"

[Bobin]

Their individual mindsets are far too removed from each other for them to understand one another. Unlike Waver and Islander, both can’t even communicate and get off the ground because of how they each think of their relationship of master/servant as. They’re too incompatible.

[Walnut Sparks]

He probably was expecting to get Saber Diarmuid, tragically unaware that Kiritsugu had received Avalon, thus locking Diarmuid out of that class.

Well, my point is that even if he had the ability to ensure that Diarmuid was summoned as Saber so long as the slot was open, and even if he knew that doing so would seal the Love Spot, it's still taking a big risk to assume that the slot is indeed still open.

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Kayneth was clearly aware of Diarmuid’s legend, but also knew that Sola was completely capable of resisting the love spot if she simply bothered. ... It makes sense to me that Kayneth just hadn’t considered Sola’s compliance to be brainwashed before that point, which is reasonable.

Agreed. This seems more likely to me than that he consciously weighed all the risks and decided to gamble on getting Saber.