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Thread: Could Sola-Ui have loved/fallen in love with Kayneth if the dude was less of an asshole from the start?

  1. #181
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Again, his motive makes him not a terrorist, even if he looks like one from the outside...Also, he is less uncaring as opposed to forcibly suppressing how much he cares.

  2. #182
    Knight of 'Sumanai' Iceblade44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    If he looks like a terrorist, acts like a terrorist and is uncaring like a terrorist...
    He's not uncaring though. He does what he does because he sees it as the most pragmatic and realistic route. Doesn't mean he likes it tho, he just forces himself to not focus on it. When he lets his guard down though it breaks, as it did for a bit when he blew up Kayneth's hotel on a number of examples
    "Only in my company, will you not be a monster"


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  3. #183
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    Fine. He... feels justified. Like a terrorist.

  4. #184
    Time Lego Toa of Gallifrey's Avatar
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    Kiritsugu comes from a well-meaning place, like his adopted son. Difference is one of them learned problem solving skills with gun and more gun. Superhero shows Shirou can become like Kiritsugu if driven to that point; luckily he had Taiga, Sakura, Shinji and the mellowed out Kiritsugu to steer him down a better path, even if he'd later need more of a shove for course correction.
    Last edited by Toa of Gallifrey; September 17th, 2018 at 10:45 PM. Reason: forgot most important boi
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    tfw no Fate/One
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    How do I get into type moon.

    watch prisma illya. If your amused or aroused, keep going.

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    Curse those 15 year old girls *shakes fist angrily*

  5. #185
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Still, terrorists do the shit they do to make a clear political statement. Kiritsugu does not. He just resolves threats as they come, trying to "save" people in the process. The Hassans are terrorists, Kerry is not.

  6. #186
    Knight of 'Sumanai' Iceblade44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toa of Gallifrey View Post
    Kiritsugu comes from a well-meaning place, like his adopted son. Difference is one of them learned problem solving skills with gun and more gun. Superhero shows Shirou can become like Kiritsugu if driven to that point, luckily he had Taiga, Sakura and the mellowed out Kiritsugu to steer him down a better path, even if he'd later need more of a shove for course correction.
    Well if it's Extra Shirou he to favored a gun, or more like a sniper rifle.
    "Only in my company, will you not be a monster"


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  7. #187
    Time Lego Toa of Gallifrey's Avatar
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    From a certain point of view, Luke Skywalker was a terrorist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iceblade44 View Post
    Well if it's Extra Shirou he to favored a gun, or more like a sniper rifle.
    Yeah, I (baselessly) speculate that he, like Miyuverse Shirou, had a less chill Kiritsugu around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    tfw no Fate/One
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    How do I get into type moon.

    watch prisma illya. If your amused or aroused, keep going.

    if you are disconcerted or want to call the FBI, run away
    Quote Originally Posted by weeblord View Post
    Curse those 15 year old girls *shakes fist angrily*

  8. #188
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    The point is, in the end does it really matter why he does if the end result is the same?

  9. #189
    Time Lego Toa of Gallifrey's Avatar
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    Does it matter why Shirou recklessly disregards his own life and limb? That falls to the reader to decide, I'd say.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    tfw no Fate/One
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    How do I get into type moon.

    watch prisma illya. If your amused or aroused, keep going.

    if you are disconcerted or want to call the FBI, run away
    Quote Originally Posted by weeblord View Post
    Curse those 15 year old girls *shakes fist angrily*

  10. #190
    Knight of 'Sumanai' Iceblade44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    Still, terrorists do the shit they do to make a clear political statement. Kiritsugu does not. He just resolves threats as they come, trying to "save" people in the process. The Hassans are terrorists, Kerry is not.
    This but not exactly. For one thing yeah Kerry actually doesn't do that much that actually moves his intended agenda. He's a mage killer, mostly because mages can be dangerous as he himself experienced but he doesn't think that killing mages will accomplish his wish, I mean you don't see him trying to eliminate all mages ever, only the ones he sees and gets told on that they have became to dangerous. But while Kerry does have a strong sense of right or wrong he will kill innocent people if leaving them alive means the mission would fail and lead to more damage, as seen with his mentor. So it's not whether he's a saint or a villian, he just does his job. That's why I don't think he's a terrorist, simply because pretty much the first time he's actually acting on his own violation to fufil his wish was during the 4th war. Everything else before that he just did his job as a contractor trying to find ways to see if his wish could be fulfilled and seeing that it's impossible. So if Kerry was ever a terrorist, you can only really say that on when he was fighting in the HGW
    Last edited by Iceblade44; September 17th, 2018 at 11:01 PM.
    "Only in my company, will you not be a monster"


    anywhere than here

  11. #191
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceblade44 View Post
    This but not exactly. For one thing yeah Kerry actually doesn't do that much that actually moves his intended agenda. He's a mage killer, mostly because mages can be dangerous as he himself experienced but he doesn't think that killing mages will accomplish his wish, I mean you don't see him trying to eliminate all mages ever, only the ones he sees and gets told are that becomes to dangerous. But while Kerry does have a strong sense of right or wrong he will kill innocent people if leaving them alive means the mission would fail and lead to more damage, as seen with his mentor. So it's not whether he's a saint or a villian, he just does his job. That's why I don't think he's a terrorist, simply because that pretty much the first time he's actually acting on his own violation to fufil his wish was during the 4th war. Everything else before that he just did his job as a contractor trying to find ways to see if his wish could be fulfilled and seeing that it's impossible. So if Kerry was ever a terrorist, you can only really say that on when he was fighting in the HGW
    Even then, the terroristic tactics he used weren't for traditional terrorist motivations.

  12. #192
    Knight of 'Sumanai' Iceblade44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toa of Gallifrey View Post
    From a certain point of view, Luke Skywalker was a terrorist.



    Yeah, I (baselessly) speculate that he, like Miyuverse Shirou, had a less chill Kiritsugu around.
    I don't know. Though I don't know how it happened the 5rh HGW actually was a thing in Extra. So he should still have the same backstory. Also wasnt there a statement when talking about pontential that if Shirou focused on practising his magic like he was in UBW he would reach the same level as Kiritsugu by being unorthodox and being dubbed Mage Killer?
    "Only in my company, will you not be a monster"


    anywhere than here

  13. #193
    Greatness, at any cost mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    Part of the reason he even does all that shit is because his heart's simply too big for this world.
    Sure, but the difference between the "hitman with a heart of gold" trope and Kerry is that the former has a soft spot and actually changes how they act because of it.

    Kerry just kills it anyway but feels bad about it later.
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  14. #194
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    The point is, in the end does it really matter why he does if the end result is the same?
    According to US federal regulations yes, it does

  15. #195
    The smell of the lukewarm ocean and the chorus of cicadas RoydGolden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    According to US federal regulations yes, it does
    Yeah, "terrorist" (both in common parlance and law) definitely refers to motivations, not just actions.

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    According to US federal regulations yes, it does
    Too bad, I don't live in the US

  17. #197
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    Too bad, I don't live in the US
    I think that's an international law thing too.

  18. #198
    Old bastard Walnut Sparks's Avatar
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    I'm no expert, but I expect motivation is a factor in pretty much any country that has a non-draconian legal system. Any country that punishes manslaughter less severely than murder, for instance.
    O walls, you have held up so much tedious graffiti that I am amazed you have not already collapsed in ruin.

  19. #199
    Lethum Milbunk's Avatar
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    On the topic of Kayneth, yes he does like to be praised for his genius but that in part also has do to with the fact that he was kind of a genius from what we see of his skills.

    After receiving nothing but praise all his life it is no wonder that he expects it from people outside his circles and for good reason. He hacks into an ancient magic system like it's child's play and though the hotel was kind of treated as a joke in Zero it gets expanded upon in later series to show just how impressive it was in the magical world.

    I'm not saying he was right to expect as much from other people, especially the Servants who prolly see such stunts on a daily basis. But there is a pretty good precedent for why he acts the way he does.

    And I feel like it makes his sudden crash more impactful and it is a shame that his first defeat was basically his final one. Without any chance to discover failure the way a normal person should it's no wonder he turned out the way he did.

    If anything, the fact that he was raised to be the ultimate mage without a shred of failure only to essentially cast that aside at the very end for Sola shows that he really did love her even if it wasn't mutual.

  20. #200
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One forumghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milbunk View Post
    On the topic of Kayneth, yes he does like to be praised for his genius but that in part also has do to with the fact that he was kind of a genius from what we see of his skills.

    After receiving nothing but praise all his life it is no wonder that he expects it from people outside his circles and for good reason. He hacks into an ancient magic system like it's child's play and though the hotel was kind of treated as a joke in Zero it gets expanded upon in later series to show just how impressive it was in the magical world.

    I'm not saying he was right to expect as much from other people, especially the Servants who prolly see such stunts on a daily basis. But there is a pretty good precedent for why he acts the way he does.
    There's a difference between expecting to be praised because you know you're awesome and amazeballs and stuff, and acting like an impotent man-child because the act of not being constantly patted on the head for every little thing is some kind of horrendous personal attack.

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