Unpopular TM opinions you have

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

hehe, what we do with Aoi and the freakin spot. Does she loved tokiomi so much that she would not fall. Diarmuid is bindly loyal, but i would not summon the guy if i was a married man.But you are right about the loyalty part

Other one , some people say Sakura story is to over the top and thus lacks realism and relatability. Come on, the whole novel is anything but realistic. Lest take our MC, realistically, he should go for therapy to deal with his PTS and then became a cop, a firefighter, a doctor or anyting where he could help people, not dreamin about superhero stuff , but he does, and its ok because it makes sense in his fictional settin

Aoi was sent away to her parents' house prior to the war, so that's not an issue. Also, Tokiomi would have been far more accommodating to Diarmuid's honor since he's far more secure in his masculinity than Kayneth and since he has his own genuine sense of honor.

[TheSeaDragon]

Aoi was sent away to her parents' house prior to the war, so that's not an issue. Also, Tokiomi would have been far more accommodating to Diarmuid's honor since he's far more secure in his masculinity than Kayneth and since he has his own genuine sense of honor.

true, i need to re wacth Zero

man, you dont give Kayneth a break At the end, Tokiomi and him are not that different. Maybe it was told that Rin takes after him, but sadly, we didnt saw that much in Zero, Tokiomi was quite over confident, kinda arrogant, kinda coward and pretty dumb sometimes. He have some nice moments wth Rin, tought and i think those were sincere

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

true, i need to re wacth Zero

man, you dont give Kayneth a break At the end, Tokiomi and him are not that different. Maybe it was told that Rin takes after him, but sadly, we didnt saw that much in Zero, Tokiomi was quite over confident, kinda arrogant, kinda coward and pretty dumb sometimes. He have some nice moments wth Rin, tought and i think those were sincere

I admit to having a visceral dislike for Kayneth and what he did and who he was in Zero, and I honestly cannot fathom why Gen thinks him sympathetic enough to put some of the blame for his ill-fated partnership on Diarmuid and later actually save him in Accel Zero Order. It's probably because from the first minute I saw Waver, I latched onto his character since we were the same age and I could sympathize with him, and because the way Kayneth throws his intelligence around is an affront to my values. That, and his elitist jerkassery didn't help things.

As for Tokiomi, I always felt he was more genuine in his code, and he actually kept his cool until Risei was killed. I think outside of a warzone, he would be genuinely polite and genial, at least for a magus, as opposed to Kayneth's constant facade of cold arrogance.

[TheSeaDragon]

I admit to having a visceral dislike for Kayneth and what he did and who he was in Zero, and I honestly cannot fathom why Gen thinks him sympathetic enough to put some of the blame for his ill-fated partnership on Diarmuid and later actually save him in Accel Zero Order. It's probably because from the first minute I saw Waver, I latched onto his character since we were the same age and I could sympathize with him, and because the way Kayneth throws his intelligence around is an affront to my values. That, and his elitist jerkassery didn't help things.

As for Tokiomi, I always felt he was more genuine in his code, and he actually kept his cool until Risei was killed. I think outside of a warzone, he would be genuinely polite and genial, at least for a magus, as opposed to Kayneth's constant facade of cold arrogance.

faur enought, his death was so brutal that i sympathized with him at the end, and come on, Waver himself let it go and saved him in Accel, why cant you do the same
But yeah, he did something really not cool killing Risei, that was throwin the supossed mage honor to the dogs. And Risei death is more relevant that people give credit for, have him lived , maybe Kirei would not have fallen in the darkness beyond return, and hey, maybe Aoi could have lived

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

faur enought, his death was so brutal that i sympathized with him at the end, and come on, Waver himself let it go and saved him in Accel, why cant you do the same
But yeah, he did something really not cool killing Risei, that was throwin the supossed mage honor to the dogs. And Risei death is more relevant that people give credit for, have him lived , maybe Kirei would not have fallen in the darkness beyond return, and hey, maybe Aoi could have lived

That, and I could tell Kayneth's honor was a facade and a sham to begin with that only lasted as long as he was in control. With Tokiomi, it was more genuine, and he only really lost his cool twice, once with Caster's monster and again when Risei was murdered, which is honestly impressive despite his questionable strategic ability.

[Imperial]

You'd be surprised how many people lack nuance in this fandom. Also, fics featuring Tokiomi (the not good ones) usually go one way or the other, no in-between.

I'm not particularly surprised by any of it.

I saw a newbie boom with ufotable's Zero adaptation, and most of them were pretty rabidly pro-Kariya, anti-Tokiomi. They tended to completely overlook Kariya's many shortcomings and inflated Tokiomi's failings as if he and Zouken got together to laugh about how much suffering Sakura would endure.

But the moonruners and long-timers had a habit of showing up to blast the newbies with the canon cannon, and most of that black-and-white sentiment seems to have died off.

[TheSeaDragon]

I'm not particularly surprised by any of it.

I saw a newbie boom with ufotable's Zero adaptation, and most of them were pretty rabidly pro-Kariya, anti-Tokiomi. They tended to completely overlook Kariya's many shortcomings and inflated Tokiomi's failings as if he and Zouken got together to laugh about how much suffering Sakura would endure.

But the moonruners and long-timers had a habit of showing up to blast the newbies with the canon cannon, and most of that black-and-white sentiment seems to have died off.

well, i think Sakura is still pretty much judged by black and white morals , you just have to see every HF discussion
Also, this board is too much on the other side about Kariya, there is some middle ground between pure tragic hero and pathetic loser that just wanted to steal other one wife

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I'm not particularly surprised by any of it.

I saw a newbie boom with ufotable's Zero adaptation, and most of them were pretty rabidly pro-Kariya, anti-Tokiomi. They tended to completely overlook Kariya's many shortcomings and inflated Tokiomi's failings as if he and Zouken got together to laugh about how much suffering Sakura would endure.

But the moonruners and long-timers had a habit of showing up to blast the newbies with the canon cannon, and most of that black-and-white sentiment seems to have died off.

True enough. The anime doesn't show Kariya's flaws as clearly as the LN, leaving it to show, not tell, and Tokiomi's motivations are also not explained as in depth, leading to a misunderstanding of both characters. However, even as a newbie myself, I could tell Tokiomi wasn't necessarily a bad guy, and I just thought both he and Kariya had somewhat of a point.

[TheSeaDragon]

True enough. The anime doesn't show Kariya's flaws as clearly as the LN, leaving it to show, not tell, and Tokiomi's motivations are also not explained as in depth, leading to a misunderstanding of both characters. However, even as a newbie myself, I could tell Tokiomi wasn't necessarily a bad guy, and I just thought both he and Kariya had somewhat of a point.

you are centered enought, besides your burning hatred for kayneth, thats why i quite like talking with you , despite we are not agree in everything

other one, i think what Kerry did to Kayneth and Sola was unnecesary cold blood murder , they were clearly not a threa, when he ordered Lancer to kill himself, Kayneth was stepping out the war for real. Takin out lancer in an already dirty way should have been enought

[Toa of Gallifrey]

I think the anime does a good job at showing Kariya's hubris, delusions and general failings. It's no accident that Sakura callously denounces him at the end, though I don't deny that the message is often lost, since I know a lot of people criticize what Sakura said.

Also, Einzbern Consultation Room should be mandatory viewing.

[TheSeaDragon]

I Dont blame Kariya for not talk with Tokiomi, he would just say something like...they are training her hard, good, thats the path of a magus or more like..a worthless like you is not someone to question mage methods. Also, i think not even Kariya was totally aware of the fin al goals of zouken with her, that is, makin her a lesser grail and all.
I totally blame him for not talk with Aoi, tought

[Mcjon01]

At the time Zouken’s endgame was just to use Sakura to pop out some matou mage babies to fight in the next war instead of making her a legitimate heir, which Tokiomi definitely wouldn’t be okay with. The lesser grail idea didn’t even cross his mind till everything went to shit at the end of Zero and he was able to scoop up some pieces of Iri from the fire.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

you are centered enought, besides your burning hatred for kayneth, thats why i quite like talking with you , despite we are not agree in everything

other one, i think what Kerry did to Kayneth and Sola was unnecesary cold blood murder , they were clearly not a threa, when he ordered Lancer to kill himself, Kayneth was stepping out the war for real. Takin out lancer in an already dirty way should have been enought

Oh, I totally agree that what Kerry did to them was unnecessarily cruel and pointless. He could have just let them go after ordering Kayneth to kill Lancer. They were already crippled enough. Actually, it might have been cruel to even let them go.

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At the time Zouken’s endgame was just to use Sakura to pop out some matou mage babies to fight in the next war instead of making her a legitimate heir, which Tokiomi definitely wouldn’t be okay with. The lesser grail idea didn’t even cross his mind till everything went to shit at the end of Zero and he was able to scoop up some pieces of Iri from the fire.

Who did he have in mind to make them? Shinji? Oh Gods...

[Toa of Gallifrey]

Nevermind, forgot he was another failure; for some reason I thought he had potential but tried to fly the coop and defect to the Einzberns.

Mayhaps Byakuya

, or he hoped to bring Kariya back into the fold, though Shinji makes more sense if he's sticking to the family. I always speculated he'd try and get a more capable male magus than the current roster of Matou men, though Zouken could be against the idea of further removing the Makiri blood from the equation.

[TheSeaDragon]

Oh, I totally agree that what Kerry did to them was unnecessarily cruel and pointless. He could have just let them go after ordering Kayneth to kill Lancer. They were already crippled enough. Actually, it might have been cruel to even let them go.

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Who did he have in mind to make them? Shinji? Oh Gods...

yeah, i think he just did it to thell Saber....see how edgy i am, you delusional idealistic girl . Admit it, i like Kerry, but before Shiro , he was quite the manchild

[Iceblade44]

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Who did he have in mind to make them? Shinji? Oh Gods...

Given his lack of circuits, very unlikely. Zouken wouldn’t let such a good prize as Sakura become a waste if his plan was to actually raise a competent Master to fufil his wish

[fumei]

Maybe this place should be called the disagreeable TM opinion thread instead

Threads like these never have actually unpopular opinions. It's just par for the course, really.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Given his lack of circuits, very unlikely. Zouken wouldn’t let such a good prize as Sakura become a waste if his plan was to actually raise a competent Master to fufil his wish

I thought Sakura's incredibly high quality circuits would overcome Shinji's lack of them. After all, Aoko and Touko were born to 2 non-magus parents, so what's stopping Sakura from overcoming the Matou suckiness gene and producing great mage babies? Also, who else could Zouken draw on to make primo master candidates?

[Bobin]

Whatever goes?

Gilgamesh

[forumghost]

I thought Sakura's incredibly high quality circuits would overcome Shinji's lack of them. After all, Aoko and Touko were born to 2 non-magus parents, so what's stopping Sakura from overcoming the Matou suckiness gene and producing great mage babies? Also, who else could Zouken draw on to make primo master candidates?

Since Kariya was a washout, and Shinji and his dad are useless, the only remaing Matou mage would be-

Oh god, someone pass me the brain bleach.