Unpopular TM opinions you have

[weeblord]

welgome to finland sagura chang :-DDDDD

[Deathhappens]

Thought experiments are fun, but imo you're wasting your time here. Kariya was pretty much doomed from the start:

1) He needs power to save Sakura, but no way to get that quickly (presumably if he had any political clout he would have used it much earlier) but Zouken

2) After Zouken has wormed him up, he's pretty much a dead man walking with a rapidly decaying mind, which sharply limits his options.
3)Considering he didn't instantly order Lancelot to make Zouken shishkebab, we can assume he can't go directly against the old man directly even as a Master.
4) His pride precludes him from getting outside help from pretty much the only other person who might give a shit (Tokiomi)

So really, the only things he COULD have done differently was lay in a ditch and die quietly instead of an eleventh hour attempt to "take back" Aoi, but considering his mind was already in shambles by then, he didn't exactly have the best grasp on reality. He's Butcher's signature tragic figure: All of his choices were the best he could have made, he didn't really make a mistake anywhere, he even had noble intentions to begin with, but he still got dealt a shit hand.


About the only thing that could change his fate would probably be someone else doing something differently (like Kerry or Waver taking an interest in the mysterious master of Berserker sooner, or Tokiomi deciding to check up on his daughter at any point), but even then he'd probably end up fighting them and die. Only difference would be that he might achieve his (stated) goal to save Sakura post-mortem.

[Zurvan]

Yeah this whole thread is indeed terrible

Its my secret guilty pleasure

[Gold Experience]

Well, Kiritsugu could be of help, given his own family struggles. But he's only began to give a damn at the very end, so there's that.

[mami-kouga]

Kiritsugu also ruined his own life so its for the best they never met

[eddyak]

Whatever he might say when asked, he's at least smart enough to recognise that reconquering the known world is a pipe dream.

There is absolutely zero evidence for this.

Also, he absolutely did just rip his way through the door to the library when he realised he couldn't ghost out carrying his books. See: A conqueror marches out with his head held high, and all that.

Thinking about it, you do raise an interesting point: How much of his dismissive/condescending attitude towards Saber is because of that ancient Greek dismissiveness/condescension towards women? First scene he interacts with her, he's all "Ooh, to think the King of Knights would be a little girl", and then at the bridge he goes "That light is a little girl having taken everyone's dreams upon herself".

[TheSeaDragon]

I also tought why, if Tokiomi considered the edelfelt in Apo timeline , why he just didnt send her with them in the FSN timeline? I guess the matous have a given spot in the grail war and he wanted her stay in fuyuki. Again, a somewhat good intention that ended really bad

[Walnut Sparks]

IIRC Zouken contacted him (or Byakuya did on Zoukens behalf?). It would've been just too convenient, together with not having to arrange a plane ticket or anything.

Also, if I understand it, Apo doesn't go into much/any detail about how the adoption went down. If Tokiomi had to contact the Edelfelts himself and convince them, then the Matous would've been an easier option in that regard as well.

[weeblord]

Sending a little japanese girl who speaks neither english nor finnish to finland is not the first choice, I’d presume.

[Asunder]

Apoc's third war went differently than FSN's, so maybe the Tohsaka/Edelfet relationship is better there. Especially since the Apoc Tohsakas are doing kung fu magecraft instead of cribbing off the Edelfet's gemcraft.

[Dullahan]

Sending a little japanese girl who speaks neither english nor finnish to finland is not the first choice, I’d presume.

everyone drinks a lot, suicide rates are high, you're right next to russia

a japanese could do far worse than finland

[weeblord]

everyone drinks a lot, suicide rates are high, you're right next to russia

a japanese could do far worse than finland

Daaaaaaamn i always wondered why finland is so overrepresented in anime despite severe lack of irl clout, you have opened my eyes.

[Gold Experience]

everyone drinks a lot, suicide rates are high, you're right next to russia

That's...surprisingly similar to what she's ended up with.

[I Can't Believe It's Not A NoblePhantasm]

[QUOTE=Deathhappens;3019402]

Conquering most of the (then) known world, actually uniting it under your banner, and spreading your cultural influence so far and so deep that people thousands of miles from your birthplace to this day claim to be related to you sounds like quite a success, to me. Plus there's this whole "The Great" thing.

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You're referring to Alexander's status, not the success they measure themselves with. Aside from the anger that a servant would reverse history, which is the only valid point of Alexander's argument, his argument is " Yeah it must have been great to be under you, but you didn't guide your people". Alexander was making the case of pragmatism over ideals. Yet, he does not have the results, the basis of his argument. He's a hypocrite. To be under Artoria is to be under temporary comfort before a fall. To be under Alexander is to be under a tyrant under a shitty rule, and still face the fall. Alexander is contending feelings with feelings disguised as pragmatism.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

[QUOTE=I Can't Believe It's Not A NoblePhantasm;3019661]

Conquering most of the (then) known world, actually uniting it under your banner, and spreading your cultural influence so far and so deep that people thousands of miles from your birthplace to this day claim to be related to you sounds like quite a success, to me. Plus there's this whole "The Great" thing.

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You're referring to Alexander's status, not the success they measure themselves with. Aside from the anger that a servant would reverse history, which is the only valid point of Alexander's argument, his argument is " Yeah it must have been great to be under you, but you didn't guide your people". Alexander was making the case of pragmatism over ideals. Yet, he does not have the results, the basis of his argument. He's a hypocrite. To be under Artoria is to be under temporary comfort before a fall. To be under Alexander is to be under a tyrant under a shitty rule, and still face the fall. Alexander is contending feelings with feelings disguised as pragmatism.

You're the one missing the point. Iskandar outright tells Waver that he has achieved immortality through being recorded in history when they visit the library, so considering how his name has been immortalized in basically every culture he encountered, even he would see his legacy as mostly a success.

[asterism42]

You're the one missing the point. Iskandar outright tells Waver that he has achieved immortality through being recorded in history when they visit the library, so considering how his name has been immortalized in basically every culture he encountered, even he would see his legacy as mostly a success.

I mean, by this metric he can't in all honesty berate Saber for her failures, because who hasn't heard of King Arthur?

[mami-kouga]

I certainly learnt of him and the likes of robin and Sherlock long before I'd learnt about Alexander the great

[weeblord]

Dherlocklong is def the goat historical figure imo

[Imperial]

It's a pity Lancelot was the inarticulate, shrieking, face-stomping flavor of Berserker.

I'm not big on the wave of talkative 'zerkers in spinoffs, but if it's going to be a thing, I might have liked to see Lancelot hunting down Alexander and talking up the greatness of King Arthur after he heard Alex was talking shit.

The more I think about it, the more I might have liked to see Lancelot comment on things in general. Like how he understands and pities Diarmuid, feels horror that a freakshow like Gilles was allowed to walk among the living again, warns Kariya that getting tunnel vision for a single woman tends to end badly for literally everyone involved, etc.

I know it makes for a shocking reveal and suits his self-flagellating nature, but it seems like a waste to treat him as a generic boss monster for 99% of his screentime.

[Bugs]

Agreed. I'd prefer that Berserkers still remain Berserker-y, but even if Kariya shared a few dream sequences with Lancelot to give his opinion, I think it'd go over nicely.