Unpopular TM opinions you have

[LJ3]

I don’t think you can really say that the original VN graveyard scene is Saber dominating Herk

ufo yes but VN was all about Shirou seeing Saber finally getting in optimal terrain to better maneuver and confuse Herk and not get bodied like she was in the other two routes, thus triggering Shirou. The only mention of a clear moment of Saber about to hurt Herk instead of effectively dodging was when Herk is finally stuck in the ground and Saber dashed in for what Shirou thinks is a kill shot.

Which makes no fucking sense because it’s Invisible Air sheathed Excalibur still and it won’t do shit so it makes Shirou look dumb. The only way to reconcile this is the ufo version which is not sufficiently accurate to the VN but whatever, laser pointer Excalibur is the only way at that time of Fate that Saber can hurt/kill Herk without suffering a critical existence failure from using up too much magical energy.

Its ultimately moot anyway because that’s when Archer decides to shoot Caladbolg so Shirou gets Saber to back off in time for Herk to just smack it down.

UBW graveyard fight is a scene where Saber is able to not suffer the injuries she did in the other intial Herk fights by taking advantage of different terrain that favors a hit and run style that can utilizes her speed and exploits Herks fifth to ultimately set him off balance so she can go in for what is presumably a kill shot.

Its an important moment for the Shirou and Saber relationship where Shirou discards most of his girls can’t fight mentality because of seeing Saber in efficent action that’s not her being ragdolled all over the place by a superior opponent. It’s a good scene of showing Saber’s skill and it’s commmendable but

its not the domination or outright blows Herk suffers in the ufo edition. To call it that is to misconstrue the true sequence of the battle and as much I hate to do both sides rhetoric, is comparably moronic as saying Saber a shit

tldr this is my pet peeve at Tobias on this particular subject and ultimately inconsequential and is no way a slur at rapebird’s character

just it’s okay man, she might not be winning that fight ultimately based on what we observe but she sure wasn’t losing either.

[Tobias]

Rin, shirou who had already intuited the nature of the godhand, the text of the VN, Heracles himself, and later then anime would all agree that saber was winning the fight.

not surviving, not holding her own, actually winning.

seriously, straight up, its time to let go. That little bit of fanon needs to die already.

[SpoonyViking]

Eh.
To be fair, Shirou intuited God Hand's attack nullification, but no one other than Ilya knew of its resurrective abilities yet.
I don't think it's a fight Saber could have won if they had continued to fight, and Ufotable showing Saber actually killing Herakles conflicts with Ilya later being more interested in Archer than in her.

[Tobias]

Actually even that part is arguable you know. After observing the god hand shirou picks up that his body is protected by a law of immortality. He knows it’s more then just magical defenses.

at the absolute very least, he certainly knows how much berserker can withstand as well as how much saber can attack with. And again, is certain she is winning.

[LJ3]

True, it’s in his narration

Can’t for the life of me remember when Herk himself is like yeah you better

problem with how God Hand works and how Saber is attacking is hella odd with why Shirou thinks they got this in the bag

it makes me suspect that the original scene probably intended for Saber to unsheathe Excalibur which would make sense and I’d have no beef with the declaration that Saber would win one life. Guessing that’s why ufo went down the way it did.

ill have to reread the scene eventually to double check the narration because I know that the anime itself is a different canon and I honestly don’t care to examine that again because it’s not the VN, which is what I’m dealing with

[SpoonyViking]

Again, to be fair, there's a moment in the VN where Saber is getting ready for an attack which, per the narration (which is from Shirou's point of view, but often takes on a certain "omniscient narrator" slant), seems like it would have been effective, but she's interrupted by Shirou's warning. It's possible Ufotable's adaptation merely showcased what had already been implied.

Actually even that part is arguable you know. After observing the god hand shirou picks up that his body is protected by a law of immortality. He knows it’s more then just magical defenses.

Really? But then why would he be so surprised at Herakles regenerating his head in the Fate route?

[Tobias]

In the fate route shirou didn’t get to see archer shoot berserker and berserker just tank it.

thats actually one of the small changes you can skip over. Archer shooting berserker doesn’t seem to do much, but it slows Heracles down just enough that he doesn’t insta own saber, leading to her turning the tide. But another thing it does is give shirou a chance to examine it in detail.

Now to be fair, him understanding the details of resurrections is questionable, it doesn’t show up on berserkers screen. However shirou knows that Heracles is immortal, he knows that berserker’s body repels attacks below a certain level, and he also knows saber is winning.

[LJ3]

Basically it comes down to if you believe Shirou is right in this case of battle narration

track record on accurate statements would suggest yes

the only problem is the sword Saber is using and Godhand’s nature. Again, this probably would not have been an issue in the first place if the VN had it with golden Excalibur instead of Invisible Air because otherwise Shirou’s call just looks bafflingly stupid

[Tobias]

Shirou, rin, and berserker himself.

[LJ3]

Which makes it more dumb

theres a horrible image of Saber charging in with Invisible Air on a Herk who just slipped up, to just bounce off his skin and cue standard sitcom silence with laughtrack

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Speaking of the Berserker v Saber fight in Ufo UBW, I am definitely in the camp that likes the breakdancing. To me it hit home the idea that even shrouded by madness, Berserker was a deadly warrior in life and death and any attempts to take advantage of his mindlessness were useless. He floated like a butterfly and stung like a bee.

[Tobias]

Which makes it more dumb

theres a horrible image of Saber charging in with Invisible Air on a Herk who just slipped up, to just bounce off his skin and cue standard sitcom silence with laughtrack

The anime was pretty clearly intended to dispel that image, but it sticks around anyway like a wet fart that way to many folks are claiming for some reason.

[LJ3]

We’ll forever be at odds with that

[Tobias]

It’s also worth noting BL has a significant history of getting burned by trying to over analyze a scene instead of just actually reading what was directly stated.

[LJ3]

That’s true too

[Draconic]

Something, something, headdesk

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Am I correctly reading the social cues in interpreting an implicit understanding that the argument isn’t actually necessary because it’s just a matter of context, but you plan to continue doing it anyway?

[Mcjon01]

Actually even that part is arguable you know. After observing the god hand shirou picks up that his body is protected by a law of immortality. He knows it’s more then just magical defenses.

at the absolute very least, he certainly knows how much berserker can withstand as well as how much saber can attack with. And again, is certain she is winning.

He knows he’s got a “magic can’t be hurt” thing going on and isn’t just facetanking everything with his CON score, I wouldn’t read much more into it than that.
Also I never noticed but it’s kind of funny that the graveyard fight scene never actually says Saber’s attacks are able to affect Berserker lol
Even at the end, all we have is Rin’s reaction, then Shirou being like “Oh shit I got distracted flirting with Ron and wasn’t watching, I guess Saber must have hit him or maybe he just tripped???”

[RoydGolden]

Ron

Is this Rin's lesser known brother?

[Draconic]

I think the NeroXHakunon became less popular due to Last Encore, though I can’t be sure. Although if it did, I can’t imagine what reason there could be for it except mindless spite from fans who were expecting Last Encore to be something else for a long time and therefore felt owed.

I liked Last Encore, but almost everything I hear about it is people railing on it. I found it clever, the Dub had a great cast and direction, and free from Aniplex bullshit, they used Maestro (or Performer) instead of Praetor as it should have been from the beginning. It was a smart new take on a Moon Cell timeline, even if the animation wasn’t Gold Standard. It had style though.

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Is this Rin's lesser known brother?

Autocorrect: Tohsaka’s mortal enemy.
(it kind of makes sense though, when you think about it.)

[You]

I also enjoyed last encore.
It's the most tsukihime fate we got

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Although I understand how someone who did approach it the way I did can come away less than impressed