Unpopular TM opinions you have

[warellis]

I mean

on the rin thing, it was never stated it was otome

i couldnt help but notice little snippets lying around which suggested a yuri connotation. Even ignoring rin’s bisexuality for a minute, there was that whole largely unexplored facet of rin and ayako’s dynamic wherein they have a long running bet that the winner has unrestricted control over the loser?

it was never explicitly stated that said control would be used sexually but

it was kinda implied

that bet was covered at the very beginning of the story then never brought up again. I have a theory it’s because it was supposed to re-emerge in rin’s protagonist story

Reading the prologue I didn't really get the vibe of anything sexual honestly:
https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%2001/

"Well, I'll come straight to the point. How's it going, Tohsaka? Have you found a reliable partner yet?"

So.
As there's no one else around, Ayako comes straight out and asks me a ridiculous question.

"…Huh, that's a really direct way of asking.
Judging from your tone of voice, you've already found yours?"

"No comment. I'm going to keep it a secret until you tell me. So what's going on? Looking at your tired face, I feel like I'm right."

Another no comment… but, you'd probably see through my lies. Unfortunately, not yet on my part.
How about you? I assume you don't have time to take it easy either."

"True, but things aren't looking good for me. I could get one right away, but it's not that kind of matter, you know? Our future depends on this, so I can't just compromise."
"I see. So you don't want to choose hastily and lose to me?"

"Of course not. The important part is making you lose. What I get comes second."
She laughs boldly.

"Geez. We really are alike."

"Yeah. When we first met, I warned you we'd have this kind of relationship."
Yes, she did indeed.

I was certainly surprised when at our first meeting, she said "We'll probably end up with a 'kill or be killed' relationship".

Or in other words, "Unless we go all out against each other, we'll never really be friends".

I agreed with her on that, and that's why we've had a friend-or-foe relationship for two years.

"By the way, why are we talking about this?"

"Why? You're the one who started it, Tohsaka.
You said there's something wrong with a woman never having a boyfriend, so we decided to see which of us could get a boyfriend before the third year."

"…Oh yeah. Just tit for tat, I suppose. And did we say the loser would obey the winner for a day?"

"Right. Even kids don't make promises like that nowadays, but it's not like we're sore losers.
Whatever the result, the loser will obediently follow the winner's orders. Just thinking about it gets me excited."

Nah, I'd say she edges that yan a bit. The future her knows she is talking to herself, and basically says to "stop trying to be his mom, just love him" , but it gets heated because it obviously would with competitive personalities clashing.
So she knows that she (because its herself) talking, she won't hurt him, she mentions "don't do anything to the goods, since we're just playing here". Its more like them fighting over a prize really.

Nah, neither knows the other is themselves. Rin thinks AU Rin is some nympho floozy who somehow got Shirou & AU Rin thinks Rin is some thieving cat who is trying to sever her relationship with Shirou so she can get him.

It was also sort of hilarious seeing Rin describe the kind of girl who Shirou should be with:

"I don't care who you are or where you're from, but sickly-sweet girls like you don't suit Emiya-kun!

What this idiot needs is someone who will stick with him through thick and thin, and guide him whenever he strays from the correct path...Right, only someone like an honor student that carries herself like a committee chairman!"

"Get it? A girl like you with pudding for brains can't measure up in the slightest. If you understand, hang up and go repent at a convent for your life up to this point...!"

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I dunno. I remember reading it and feeling the sexual tension, and this was 3 or so weeks ago.

[warellis]

I dunno. I remember reading it and feeling the sexual tension, and this was 3 or so weeks ago.

Probably the only sexual tension side to me is the bit where Ayako is really excited over the possibility of winning the bet I'd say.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Rin is pretty excited about winning as well.

[warellis]

Rin is pretty excited about winning as well.

True:

Ayako laughs.
Honestly.
She's so serious about this. Mitsuzuri Ayako is such a difficult person to deal with.

…Though, I can't wait to beat Ayako either, so neither of us are people you want to deal with.

I found it interesting how Rin seemed to be the one to sort of start the little competition.

[Inuhanyou]

Well they are both competitive people as the prologue shows...

[Altima of the Gates]

Reading the prologue I didn't really get the vibe of anything sexual honestly:
https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%2001/

Nah, neither knows the other is themselves. Rin thinks AU Rin is some nympho floozy who somehow got Shirou & AU Rin thinks Rin is some thieving cat who is trying to sever her relationship with Shirou so she can get him.

It was also sort of hilarious seeing Rin describe the kind of girl who Shirou should be with:

I read it over recently, and Future Rin's dialogue implies she knows because she senses some similarity, saying she feels like she is talking to herself 3 years ago (which gives us an age range under the radar to this being 20 year old Rin). It's just it comes down to two domineering personalities clashing ending up fighting.
The funny part is the current Rin thought it was Sakura at first. We can use some implications there. But you forgot the part just after that where Future Rin fired back and told her her methods are too slow and she needs to take care when "forging her blade".
Which is just like her and shows they are very much the same to a point internally, with viewing Shirou like a project to be worked on. That a perfectionist get belligerent with another perfectionist is inevitable.

If anything, the more amusing point 5o it is Shirou's internal thoughts, getting so nonplussed at honest love directed at him even if a little heavy, you couldn't even tell whether he was impressed or slightly disappointed his future self "tamed" Rin. But since he folded like spaghetti when Sakura seduced him at the crepe restuarant in another scene, at the very least he isn't that thick.

[warellis]

I read it over recently, and Future Rin's dialogue implies she knows because she senses some similarity, saying she feels like she is talking to herself 3 years ago (which gives us an age range under the radar to this being 20 year old Rin). It's just it comes down to two domineering personalities clashing ending up fighting.
The funny part is the current Rin thought it was Sakura at first. We can use some implications there. But you forgot the part just after that where Future Rin fired back and told her her methods are too slow and she needs to take care when "forging her blade".
Which is just like her and shows they are very much the same to a point internally, with viewing Shirou like a project to be worked on. That a perfectionist get belligerent with another perfectionist is inevitable.

If anything, the more amusing point 5o it is Shirou's internal thoughts, getting so nonplussed at honest love directed at him even if a little heavy, you couldn't even tell whether he was impressed or slightly disappointed his future self "tamed" Rin. But since he folded like spaghetti when Sakura seduced him at the crepe restaurant in another scene, at the very least he isn't that thick.

I honestly get the feeling that, for all that he had a crush/admiration for Rin, and was noticing Sakura as well, that had it not been for the Grail War or ladies interested in him, Shirou probably would never have really thought of love ever happening in his life.

Like it was never even on the radar for him in his future as far as he ever thought on it.

I get the feeling that he would've just continued his magecraft practice every night until however old he was to go to college and then just leave Fuyuki.

If it wasn't for the fact his ultimate goal is to be an AoJ, and the fact his training was sabotaged by Kiritsugu, I'd almost say Shirou fits in more with the obsessive-determination types we see magi sometimes praise or aspire to. Like the types that don't have a social life and just focus on their magecraft until they die or pop out an heir.

Like somehow I can't picture say Rin, Luvia or Sakura (assuming a less abusive life growing up like say in Apocrypha, and from what we see in Ataraxia) having this kind of obsessive mentality and focus almost:

Spoiler:

I can however picture say Lev, from Clock Tower 2015, having that kind of obsessive focus.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Quite a bit like Clocktower 2015 Lev then. However, he was no celibate, and he definitely noticed how hot the females in his life were, whether it be "man, Sakura is getting hot these days" and possibly masturbating to Rin and openly admitting to admiring her.

Even Archer apparently had a lover prior to losing everything, and I would guess that was Rin based on process of elimination, but who knows?

[warellis]

Quite a bit like Clocktower 2015 Lev then. However, he was no celibate, and he definitely noticed how hot the females in his life were, whether it be "man, Sakura is getting hot these days" and possibly masturbating to Rin and openly admitting to admiring her.

Even Archer apparently had a lover prior to losing everything, and I would guess that was Rin based on process of elimination, but who knows?

Yeah but I suspect beyond thinking how hot they were, the idea that he would actually get into a relationship with them probably never really crossed his mind I think. Like he was never really looking for or thinking about getting into a relationship with anyone.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Can totally agree with that statement. His trauma prevented him from trying to take that extra step. Actually, that makes me extra mad at Kiritsugu for purposely sabotaging his magic training, since he condemned him to a lifetime of self-harm and pain with his magic that wasn't necessary in the slightest.

[warellis]

Can totally agree with that statement. His trauma prevented him from trying to take that extra step. Actually, that makes me extra mad at Kiritsugu for purposely sabotaging his magic training, since he condemned him to a lifetime of self-harm and pain with his magic that wasn't necessary in the slightest.

I feel it's more his obsessive focus, to the point of not really caring that he didn't have a social life, that made him sort of not care if he ever got into a relationship or not.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I feel it's more his obsessive focus, to the point of not really caring that he didn't have a social life, that made him sort of not care if he ever got into a relationship or not.

And one could say his trauma birthed his obsessive focus, and it made him feel unworthy of anything good or happy.

[You]

I found it interesting how Rin seemed to be the one to sort of start the little competition.

Tbh i would think the full details on how the bet started are in school life.

[warellis]

Tbh i would think the full details on how the bet started are in school life.

Where is School Life even translated? And does it reveal actual stuff or is it all comedy or what?

[Altima of the Gates]

And one could say his trauma birthed his obsessive focus, and it made him feel unworthy of anything good or happy.

Shirou's trauma has its nuance, but I think it might just be a part of the "proper mentality to be a magus" the game hammers in your head over and over.
About hating oneself and having that dissonance, that distortion to walk with death and all that rot.
Rin got on Shirou's case about enjoying things, and says she practices magecraft because it's fun, but then you have parts where she says she never thought about how painful it was.
Ilya and Sakura are perhaps closest on the wavelength of their thoughts about being a magus, you just kept on keeping on, or you'd die.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I never thought magi had to "hate" themselves as much as they just had to walk with death and disregard their own well-being. That Shirou's trauma reinforced that mindset for him honestly to me feels like a happy coincidence.

[You]

Where is School Life even translated? And does it reveal actual stuff or is it all comedy or what?

ragnar translated the first volume and was told to stop by the author i believe
I've only read 10 and 11 which goes through HGW 5 but it does give some good insight to like how Taiga dealt with Kuzuki's disappearance or how Ayako processes her getting her blood sucked while in hospital at the same time getting into otome games.
Of course it's all memes and comedy.

[warellis]

Shirou's trauma has its nuance, but I think it might just be a part of the "proper mentality to be a magus" the game hammers in your head over and over.
About hating oneself and having that dissonance, that distortion to walk with death and all that rot.
Rin got on Shirou's case about enjoying things, and says she practices magecraft because it's fun, but then you have parts where she says she never thought about how painful it was.
Ilya and Sakura are perhaps closest on the wavelength of their thoughts about being a magus, you just kept on keeping on, or you'd die.

Do you ever feel magi like Rin are sort of more the exception regarding magecraft as sort of fun? And less some sort of expected thing to do because it's all they know and nothing else ala Fiore?

Sometimes I think Shirou's "it wasn't really bad but neither was it fun" may be more standard, that they do their magecraft more out of it being all they know than really because it's fun or something.

I mean some magi encountered are really socially awkward, to say the least.

ragnar translated the first volume and was told to stop by the author i believe
I've only read 10 and 11 which goes through HGW 5 but it does give some good insight to like how Taiga dealt with Kuzuki's disappearance or how Ayako processes her getting her blood sucked while in hospital at the same time getting into otome games.
Of course it's all memes and comedy.

Where are the translations located?

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Do you ever feel magi like Rin are sort of more the exception regarding magecraft as sort of fun? And less some sort of expected thing to do because it's all they know and nothing else ala Fiore?

Sometimes I think Shirou's "it wasn't really bad but neither was it fun" may be more standard, that they do their magecraft more out of it being all they know than really because it's fun or something.

I mean some magi encountered are really socially awkward, to say the least.

Kind of off topic, but how similar is Luvia to Rin in why she does magic? I've always imagined the two as quite similar in many fundamental ways, but I just want to know if the two viewed magic differently. Case Files V1 doesn't really give answers regarding that, and that's all I've managed to read when it comes to that.