Unpopular TM opinions you have

[Spartacus]

i remember that one time they accidentally broke my bicycle, this is my revenge

[Ratman]

Haven't met anyone so uninformed that they has hooked to Fate but don't know about FGO before, can't answer. But complete newbie, I tried to hook them all the time.

I just ask them to watch UBW or Zero. Regardless my standing, both are statistically (by English fandom) the most successful one and therefore the safest choice for them to like Fate. Gatekeeping them by giving watch order and equally tasking stuff most likely will turn them down from giving the franchise a shot at all. And I rather has friends to talk about it rather than silently listen to them talking about Shonen Jump. If they hooked they will starve for more content anyway without me asking them to read the VN that most likely will turn people down by proxy it is a VN.

I always said to people (as that the case of me) the only way to enjoy gachage is by having prior attachment to a series first. Of course, it evidently not the case as most of the successful gachage are original ones.

This has happened multiple times. I always said 'that's nice but read the VN - or watch KnK I guess'. What do you want me to do, lie about my feelings?

And I even got a bunch of my actual friends to read Fate and Tsukihime, you know, a feat thought impossible.

[Spartacus]

Oh, never said it is impossible. It just that after multiple attempts the people that I know still hooked to Fate/TM are those I introduced from those two anime first, instead of me asking to read the VN first. They end up to read the VN anyway (because they want more content) without me asking them to read it, some took only months, some took years, whatever the pace they comfortable with.

[Bloble]

Let's assume that this person wants it to be GO for whatever reason. The debate here is not whether you should recommend GO first (that's an entirely different can of worms) but rather, how one should go about best experiencing the good bits of FGO while avoiding the bad ones.

I am of the strong opinion that the good and bad here could and in fact should be separated as much as humanly possible. The ridiculous idea that you must slog through boring gameplay that's 99% repetitive grind, that you must expose yourself to the gacha system that is proven to be almost as mentally damaging as real gambling, and that you must deal with an AP system that spreads your enjoyment of the story over a span of months rather than days - that is the most damaging narrative put forth by the FGO "community".

Tell people they dont have to deal with that bullshit. If they're imterested, dont default to telling them to play the game and suffer all the evils it inflicts upon them.

There is a way to have your cake and not have to eat shit to get it, and that should be the norm.

Unpopular opinion, I guess.

[Dullahan]

ah, but if they do that they won't fit in

[Zurvan]

If you play fgo to fit in you should reflect on some of your life choices

[Aozaki-desu]

how one should go about best experiencing the good bits of FGO while avoiding the bad ones.

Thats not possible
Someone who starts now cannot experience peak FGO because you had to be there for Camelot / Babylonia / Solomon release
New player cant be there anymore

Best one can get is playing on their own through JP version (assuming they can read it), which would be pretty miserable experience because JP has been in a shitter for a long fucking while now, in terms of both main and side content, I cant imagine catching up being in any way pleasant considering how unfriendly FGO is to new players

If one starts on NA, it can be enjoyable read i guess? If you avoid all community interaction to avoid spoilers / have friends to help you out with the grind and game advice.
However, as NA is 2 years behind and is going to repeat descent into shitter that JP FGO has been doing, and there is no surprise factor whatsoever, i cannot in good consciense advise playing NA version of the game

FGO cannot be experienced at its peak anymore. No matter what you choose to do, good parts will be severely diminished and bad parts will jump your ass in no time.

[Dullahan]

ソシャゲ, for certain values of ソシャ and certain values of ゲ

[Bloble]

Thats not possible
Someone who starts now cannot experience peak FGO because you had to be there for Camelot / Babylonia / Solomon release
New player cant be there anymore

Best one can get is playing on their own through JP version (assuming they can read it), which would be pretty miserable experience because JP has been in a shitter for a long fucking while now, in terms of both main and side content, I cant imagine catching up being in any way pleasant considering how unfriendly FGO is to new players

If one starts on NA, it can be enjoyable read i guess? If you avoid all community interaction to avoid spoilers / have friends to help you out with the grind and game advice.
However, as NA is 2 years behind and is going to repeat descent into shitter that JP FGO has been doing, and there is no surprise factor whatsoever, i cannot in good consciense advise playing NA version of the game

FGO cannot be experienced at its peak anymore. No matter what you choose to do, good parts will be severely diminished and bad parts will jump your ass in no time.

This implies the highs are to be found through "being there" and playing through the game, which as I've addressed is not at all the case. A good story will be good irrespective of when it was released. Why should someone youtubing the cutscenes care about experiencing it on release? Why, for that matter, shoukd they care or rather worry about events and grinding at all? The very idea of havimg to experience FGO as a drip feed of content over several years is what I am challenging here.

[Aozaki-desu]

This implies the highs are to be found through "being there" and playing through the game, which as I've addressed is not at all the case. A good story will be good irrespective of when it was released. Why should someone youtubing the cutscenes care about experiencing it on release? Why, for that matter, shoukd they care or rather worry about events and grinding at all? The very idea of havimg to experience FGO as a drip feed of content over several years is what I am challenging here.

Because the story was designed around being experienced over a certain time in mind. The story doesnt need you to grind and play the game, that much is definitely true. But the story of FGO does need you to not know what happens next and to be able to sit on it after major chapters thinking about what you liked and disliked, to speculate what happens next. The very fact that story uses real time flow and bothers to change ingame dates between different versions of the game should tell you as much.

Its simply not as good otherwise. Reading (not playing) FGO on NA server would be enjoyable, but you are not going to get the same experience as original bulk of players. FGO relies on its mystery element very much, and if you take it away it loses a part of its charm.

[Bloble]

Because the story was designed around being experienced over a certain time in mind. The story doesnt need you to grind and play the game, that much is definitely true. But the story of FGO does need you to not know what happens next and to be able to sit on it after major chapters thinking about what you liked and disliked, to speculate what happens next. The very fact that story uses real time flow and bothers to change ingame dates between different versions of the game should tell you as much.

Its simply not as good otherwise. Reading (not playing) FGO on NA server would be enjoyable, but you are not going to get the same experience as original bulk of players. FGO relies on its mystery element very much, and if you take it away it loses a part of its charm.

The bulk of your argument is simply "being spoiled changes the experience" which is not unique to FGO and applies to literally any story. You can read FGO just fine blind.

As for it being designed around content being eeleased over time, one could say the same for serials or books or anime, but that is just a claim, nothing more. The experience not being the same doesnt mean it will be worse; my whold point is that cutting out the chaff makes things better on average. The idea that you should have to wait several days or weeks is arbitrary timekeeping. People decide for themselves how quickly they want to read, anything else is artificial timegating or pointless filler.

Or are you saying everything should be experienced as if on release? Should I wait a week between episodes of an old anime instead of watching it all in one sitting? Should I wait years between DDD volumes because thats how it released?

[Aozaki-desu]

I do believe there is a quality difference between how mobage story is written and how stories are written in other mediums. I would go so far as to say making a story that can work in a mobile game meant to last years and at the same time making this story to be just as good if experienced in a more traditional fashion would be one hell of a challenge for any writer. This story being TM story which encompasses 20 years worth of world-building and storylines not only lends this story an extreme amount of power, but also actually makes this task even more difficult than it already is.

Lets IMAGINE that FGO is one day turned into VN accessible for anyone who wants to read it. How does one go about reading it? In what way should it exist?

Do you read main story first? Do you read main story and side-stories (events) in a chronological order they were released? What about characters? Do you read their "servant sheet" each time they are introduced in story? Or do you read then as they appear in the game chronologically? Or dont read them at all and rely on actual script to carry the characters?
What about FGO materials? Should they be in a novel format as well (imagine that possible)? Should they not be there? Should you read them? Remember that not all characters are equally represented in the game. Some are getting spotlight, some are blueballed, some are relegated to joke characters and some steal every event they appear in. Moreover, main cast is very small and every new story chapter and side-stories rely on "new" characters to carry the story forward. Most are recurring in one way or the other, some are not.

What about MyRoom section? What about ascension quotes and combat lines? If you cut gameplay, you cut a significant chunk of characterization. Not only voice lines, but animations as well, Noble Phantasm unique animations and quotes.
What about Craft Essences? What about bond lines? What about Bond Essences?
How do you incorporate them into the perfect FGO VN experience? I dont think thats humanly possible.
Maybe if a dream mobage is designed with end of life in mind, someone very talented could think of a way to make that work, but thats clearly not the case with FGO.

"Just reading it" as if it were just another VN is simply not going to work because FGO is fundamentally not that kind of experience.

[Bloble]

Everything besides the main story is supplementary. The things you describe, servant sheets, craft essences, interludes, etc., are simply breadcrumbs left there for people who want to dive into them. They are also, btw, best experienced through wiki diving if the reader feels like it. Same for the voice lines and other tidbits that 1. Dont really matter and 2. Wouldnt be guaranteed to be experienced even by people who do play FGO, since its content is gated by random chance and grind walls. The only player that gets to see everything you just mentioned for the "dream experience" is one that either throws in enough money to acquire every bit of lore and characterization in the game... Or one that knows how to use google. Which is supposed to be easier again?

You also have refrained from justifying the grind, or the gacha, or ap as negatives. Should they not be factored in to this discussion as potential ruiners of fun? Do you consider them not even worth contemplating?

[mami-kouga]

Wow why do you people hate your friends

My relationship with people I love is dragging them to hell with me so we can mutual laugh at eachother's suffering. That's why I convinced one of my friends to watch houseki no kuni with me!

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Holy wall of text, why does every discussion about this game always get unbelievably long.

[Zurvan]

Because of simple reasons really

also houseki no kuni is good whats suffering about watching that?

[Aozaki-desu]

Everything besides the main story is supplementary.

Thats plain wrong, because characters that appear in supplementary, as you described, content make their appearance in the final chapter of the story. Some of them are key players down the line, even. One of the characters that was introduced through 2 events fairly early into game lifecycle is in all but name official helper in the second part of the story.

The things you describe, servant sheets, craft essences, interludes, etc., are simply breadcrumbs left there for people who want to dive into them. They are also, btw, best experienced through wiki diving if the reader feels like it. Same for the voice lines and other tidbits that 1. Dont really matter and 2. Wouldnt be guaranteed to be experienced even by people who do play FGO, since its content is gated by random chance and grind walls. The only player that gets to see everything you just mentioned for the "dream experience" is one that either throws in enough money to acquire every bit of lore and characterization in the game... Or one that knows how to use google. Which is supposed to be easier again?

FGO as a mobage, while often referred to as a story-driven game, is a mobage that sells characters. Naturally one cant expect accumulating many high rarity characters without paying or playing for a long ass time, so much of the content behind them will be out of their reach. However, that is mitigated through support system somewhat, that allows you to play with characters you dont have, so you can at least get a glimpse at them, if only to google them later.
Another thing is that most players will end up collecting majority of non-rare characters and they will have access to their content should they choose to experience it. Many of these characters have main story appearances and sometimes are rewards for clearing story. I cant help but mention that excluding these characters on a basis of them being "supplementary" directly detracts from main story.

All this is to reiterate my point that FGO story doesnt come by itself. Its not a VN. Its not a book, or TV series, or an anime. Would you say that reading a raw script for an anime is the same as watching a complete thing? Or for TV series? Or per-chapter summaries for a book? Maybe i'm reaching with that analogy, but i'm fairly sure i'm not that far off the mark.

You also have refrained from justifying the grind, or the gacha, or ap as negatives. Should they not be factored in to this discussion as potential ruiners of fun? Do you consider them not even worth contemplating?

Most FGO players are rarely ap starved outside of heavy grind they choose to do themselves. You do need to level a minimal amount of characters to progress through the game at later stages, so a certain grind / gameplay is expected and that would be my only complaint. On the other hand i dont feel like it would be a fair complaint because it is a game and expect it not to be one is simply unfair.

Gacha only has any bearing on the game if you want something from it. If you dont want anything and just interested in the story, you do not need to engage in it ever. You can use currency to refuel your ap to progress through the story if you feel like it even. If you want anything from it, then its very bad. If you dont, its irrelevant. Or supplementary if you will.

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Holy wall of text, why does every discussion about this game always get unbelievably long.

Personally i commit to walls of text because i feel like we're discussing geniunely interesting and relevant topic. It can even be applied to things other than FGO, as mobage market is ever growing.

[mami-kouga]

Because of simple reasons really

also houseki no kuni is good whats suffering about watching that?

The suffering of watching Phos life get worst in surprisingly rapid succession. Well written beautifully animated pain is still pain

[Dullahan]

All this wrangling over whether or not "playing" the "game" is essential to properly experiencing FGO is really quite academic, because regardless of the method of approach there's simply nothing there worth experiencing.

[Constructman]

All this wrangling over whether or not "playing" the "game" is essential to properly experiencing FGO is really quite academic, because regardless of the method of approach there's simply nothing there worth experiencing.

I can smell the entitlement and pretentions all the way from my house.

[Dullahan]

okay?