yeah, people just see lol. lest bully seibah, but actually, her stance is closer tou our modern ideals.Originally Posted by Imperial
yeah, people just see lol. lest bully seibah, but actually, her stance is closer tou our modern ideals.
Yeah, it's pretty obvious that anyone that wants Iskander as a Ruler hasn't paid much attention to his speech:
“It’s not the king sacrificing for the nation. It’s the nation and the people sacrificing their lives for the king. You got it backwards.”- AKA everyone else should suffer for my personal benefit.
“As king, you must have stronger desires than anyone else. You must be more magnificent, more easily angered than everyone else! He should be both pure and chaotic, a man who was more real than any other man. Only through this, could your subjects be impressed by the king, and only this, would the message of 'if only I was king, that would be wondrous' would be imprinted upon the people’s heart”- AKA you should abuse your power to do whatever you feel like, so that others will want to be kings and abuse their power as well.
I mean, what a great King, what a great message. It's no wonder his empire collapsed before his body was cold.
lol, he is a literal tyrant, but yeah, when you are in Zero, where almost everyone is either evil or a total dumbass, he looks like a chill guy .
And yeah, if you want someone to lecture Saber, at least let it be someone whose legacy was more everlasting, like Karl or Caesar
You vastly overestimate his willingness to change what he wants out for what you want.
Again, I'd rather be debating Gil, who at least might be swayed by some clever argument, or some bit of self-reflection, if you're perceptive or lucky. You could win an argument against Iskander but the final word would still be "Yeah but I'm the king and I'm gonna do it anyway."
No. You are completely and utterly wrong. Just because he probably isn't gonna drop mustard gas on your home city doesn't mean he and his army aren't going to murder their way into your country, through you, and your friends, and everybody else who signed up to protect their homes and families.
"He doesn't have any specific evils in mind for you" is not a good judge of what you can expect when your enemy's army rolls over your nation.
In terms of motivation, at least, I'd put the two on the same level, if not Iskander a little worse.
Iskander's end goal is war. That's the final line. If there's nothing left on earth to fight, he'll go out and conquer the stars themselves, as he said to Gil. His end goal, his methods, and his cause are the slaughter of anybody who wants to stop him getting his way.
Archer would've been the guy on the grassy knoll.
FGO Supports
Ethnic genocide was part of Hitler's main plan, but did Iskander try that, or did he only want to kill political enemies, like most political leaders not hedged by democracy try to?
Really he didn’t so much kill political enemies then turned them to his side. You know Mithrenes, the soldier Iskandar sent out? He originally fought Iskandar, surrendered, then wound up becoming a general in his army. You find that happen a lot with Iskandar. Now it’s not to saying there wasn’t any political shadyness from Iskandars rise to power but from what I have learned(correct me anyone if I’m wrong on this, I’m not sure) that had a larger part thanks to his mother Olympia then himself. Olympia wasn’t someone I would say to be nice.
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As for ethnic genocide, no Iskandar never did that. He was very open to different cultures and customs, which was strange in the time thanks to the overall opinion the Greeks had with their supremacy and bigotry. Though there was the case with the city of Trye which he massacred, that had more to do with the frustration and wasted effort Alexander suffered thanks to them then him hating them from just existing
Last edited by Iceblade44; September 22nd, 2018 at 07:55 PM.
"Only in my company, will you not be a monster"
anywhere than here
other thingt hat explains why he is liked is that Zero is a grimderp fest and he and waver are like t he only lighearthed relief . So, fans see his ideology and everything about with rose glasses because he played videogames and ordered shirts for mail
Isk, Gil, Nero. Is still kinda gun that some of tne most popular characters are basiclaly egomaniac tyrants
About that, Iskandar's cultural legacy lasted LONG after his death. Because of him, Greek remained the lingua franca of the Eastern Mediterranean for centuries, if not millenia, after his death, and that's the reason the Christian Bible was originally written in Koine Greek. His attempts at cultural fusion also created a Hellenistic continuity all the way to Central Asia, a continuity that lasted in some areas up to the 20th century. Furthermore, many ethnic groups such as the Pathans of Afghanistan claim descent from his soldiers, and Y-chromosomal analysis indicate they are correct in that belief.
Also, the name Iskandar became popular in central Asia because of him, and it was a name that signified courage and toughness. In fact, Iskandar is the Persian form of Alexander.
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What I was trying to say. He did something similar to a city in India, and again, it was mostly because of the long siege. Iskandar was very open to cultural mixing and promoted Persians and other non-Macedonians based on merit.
I think that's the appeal of the characters, for a lot of people. I know I like a bunch of confidence in my favourite Fate characters, it's why I hate Nightless Caster's design choices so much. She was supposed to be fearless and intelligent, not a wimpy thicc meme.
Last edited by eddyak; September 22nd, 2018 at 07:55 PM.
FGO Supports
There's another issue, which is that the past in the Nasuverse was different from how it is in reality. You can work out the implication of that.
O walls, you have held up so much tedious graffiti that I am amazed you have not already collapsed in ruin.
She was fearless in the beginning but was beaten down the longer she told her stories.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
ok, the cultural legacy thing is true
Removing your rule from history (or similarily, adding your name to history when it wasn't recorded) seems a lot more destructive to me than "just" getting a second chance at life. Heck, the only people with less destructive wishes about the Grail were Diarmuid and Gil, who didn't have a wish for it.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
So, eddyak, given what Iceblade44 and SirGauoftheSquareTable said, please explain why you think Iskander might be worse than Hitler. If the desire to conquer is evil, then all countries were created by evil. If no one ever conquered anything, we'd still be living in tribes.
His empire collapsed because he died suddenly and without leaving an heir. Also, I shouldn't have to point out the futility of conflating the real life person's situation with the fantasy version's words.
Read a history book. Brush up on the definition of tyrant while you're at it, too.
All the statements are correct, but the conclusion is wrong. Alexander's end goal isn't war, it's CONQUEST. You know, the thing he's the King of? He's not the Nazi guy from Hellsing Abridged. As clearly illustrated in the first time he appears on screen, he's perfectly content recruiting people without force of arms.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Slave morality: Heroes should be martyrs.
Master morality: Heroes should be ubermensch.
Guess which one I lean towards.
Monsters should kill everyone, next
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^ On the subject of destructive wishes, I can't help but be reminded of Mami Tomoe's "Just wish for cake" statement in Madoka now.
"Here's a bangin lil' tune about takin' on The Man!"
(Check out my Super Special Awesome Servant Compendium here)
That's what I was getting at. Assassin's wish of 'becoming the real Hassan il Sabbah' is a lot more destructive than it first appears.
Although F/GO says HF Hassan's wish is actually to unite his personalities somehow, so if that's true...
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
And what happens when people don't want to be recruited?
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