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Thread: Common TM Fanon and Misconceptions

  1. #941
    The afterlife and the Root...

    Gonna have to say lol to that one

  2. #942
    成人リリィの夏休み Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Akasha is not afterlife and also not a realm. So right off the bat your analogy falls apart.


    まかせておきなさい、魔王様!

  3. #943
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    he meant that it is the afterlife in a sense but only for people who reached the root

    - - - Updated - - -

    are akasha and the root the same thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  4. #944
    with how often you bring up the root I'd have thought you could answer that question

  5. #945
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurvan View Post
    with how often you bring up the root I'd have thought you could answer that question
    pretty sure they are just synonims for the same thing but the other guy that wanted to bring up the phoenix force differentiated it, so i jist felt like throwing the question
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  6. #946
    >Gilgamesh didn't use full power Ea in Fate route

  7. #947
    Running away from Falconetti AsGryffynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurvan View Post
    The afterlife and the Root...

    Gonna have to say lol to that one
    Alright. Give me a fiction parallel to the Root. This time I'm not taking "no" for an answer and will pester the thread until I get a working analogy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio View Post
    Akasha is not afterlife and also not a realm. So right off the bat your analogy falls apart.
    ...



    It either is a location or is a metaphysical place. Both fit the definition of what the White Hot Room is.

    If I'm running into an issue, it is by associating the Phoenix Force itself with it. But it is at least the White Hot Room.

    I mean, it's referred to as heaven and souls go there before being reincarnated, for crying out loud. That's the White Hot Room as of Endsong!

    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    pretty sure they are just synonims for the same thing but the other guy that wanted to bring up the phoenix force differentiated it, so i jist felt like throwing the question
    They keep bringing up the PF instead of my original statement: The White Hot Room. That place in Marvel where souls pretty much go to do the same shit they do in TM's Root.

    And people wonder why I hate this cosmology. Because you can't put it into a box or categorize it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeastXxx View Post
    >Gilgamesh didn't use full power Ea in Fate route
    Even though I'm sure he would've liked to, the douchebag couldn't do that without turning Japan into post-Trump Puerto Rico in the process.
    Last edited by AsGryffynn; July 17th, 2019 at 08:30 PM.

  8. #948
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    I mean, you literally can’t categorize it lol, that’s a plot point in Kara no Kyokai. Even just applying a name like “the root” takes you further away from what it actually is, which is why Void Shiki is referred to as “ ”.

  9. #949
    Time Lego Toa of Gallifrey's Avatar
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    The root is like City of Silver in Bionicle maybe probably not actually it's nothing like it mcjon hit the nail on the head

    Quote Originally Posted by AsGryffynn View Post


    Even though I'm sure he would've liked to, the douchebag couldn't do that without turning Japan into post-Trump Puerto Rico in the process.

    Eh, it's more Excaliblast than Ea right now.
    Last edited by Toa of Gallifrey; July 17th, 2019 at 10:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    tfw no Fate/One
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    How do I get into type moon.

    watch prisma illya. If your amused or aroused, keep going.

    if you are disconcerted or want to call the FBI, run away

  10. #950
    At what point can I just drop out of conversations

  11. #951
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsGryffynn View Post
    And people wonder why I hate this cosmology. Because you can't put it into a box or categorize it.
    This right here

    Is pretty telling

    I'm curious. What is it you're looking for from this fictional series? Because you're holding a lot of assumptions on what it should be to you instead of what it is.

  12. #952
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    It does have its own internal logic which usually works well enough, so that's okay in my book.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  13. #953
    吸血鬼 Vampire AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsGryffynn View Post
    Alright. Give me a fiction parallel to the Root. This time I'm not taking "no" for an answer and will pester the thread until I get a working analogy.



    ...



    It either is a location or is a metaphysical place. Both fit the definition of what the White Hot Room is.

    If I'm running into an issue, it is by associating the Phoenix Force itself with it. But it is at least the White Hot Room.

    I mean, it's referred to as heaven and souls go there before being reincarnated, for crying out loud. That's the White Hot Room as of Endsong!



    They keep bringing up the PF instead of my original statement: The White Hot Room. That place in Marvel where souls pretty much go to do the same shit they do in TM's Root.

    And people wonder why I hate this cosmology. Because you can't put it into a box or categorize it.



    Even though I'm sure he would've liked to, the douchebag couldn't do that without turning Japan into post-Trump Puerto Rico in the process.
    If you're really interested in making parallels then read the works and make a better case for such a comparison so that people don't laugh you out of this forum. Almost all of your problems seem to come from inaccurate info and misunderstanding what stuff does.

  14. #954
    成人リリィの夏休み Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsGryffynn View Post
    Alright. Give me a fiction parallel to the Root. This time I'm not taking "no" for an answer and will pester the thread until I get a working analogy.
    There is none because the " " in Nasu is a combination of multiple concepts from religions, mostly Wuji and Akasha
    It either is a location or is a metaphysical place. Both fit the definition of what the White Hot Room is.
    One can visualize it as a location, and it's "kinda metaphysical" but like Mcjon said you can't categorize it. You don't even give it a name. All of the names it was given are based on similar things in various religions and theories.
    I mean, it's referred to as heaven
    Because part of it is inspired by Wuji, and Wuji is referred to as Heaven, but this is not your western Heaven afterlife, it's instead just "something up there we don't know but we like to reach there". And then calling it Akasha/Root is referencing the Hinduism and Buddhism similarities. And then it storing records of all events from past, present, future is the Akashic Records. All of these terms and descriptions are from these various source, and " " has a bit of all these but not actually any of these. Using these names to call it only serves to make it more understandable to the plebs that is us readers, aka giving an analogy.
    and souls go there before being reincarnated
    Except that souls don't go there for incarnation, they become records of the past, like the heroic spirits are records of past phenomena. Their origin may or may not be reused for certain other beings and if you awaken it you can have a case like Lio in KnK where all of your past lives manifest all at once in the form of pure instinct that is driven by your origin.

    Incarnation only works in the age of gods where you have underworlds with certain underworld gods who will decided where to put you. After AoG it's literally "if you're dead, you're no longer exist, but be glad your origin shall be used for some new being later". That's why after AoG if your soul is no longer around as ghosts and went back to " ", not even True Magic can revive you. Mashu for example was only able to be revived due to the Time Temple being outside of spacetime and her soul is still lingering there after she get blasted.
    They keep bringing up the PF instead of my original statement: The White Hot Room. That place in Marvel where souls pretty much go to do the same shit they do in TM's Root.
    Except it isn't, like I pointed out.


    まかせておきなさい、魔王様!

  15. #955
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warellis View Post
    But what is better than X-Men comics?
    literally fucking anything

    but let us say you want specifically to come up with analogies to understand what " " is

    the answer is still anything. anything from the theosophical or esoteric side of any religion you care to name. read attar's "conference of the birds". read the discourses of the buddha. read the tao te ching. read the mumonkan. read keiji nishitani's "religion and nothingness". read the principal upanishads. read "creation" by gore vidal. read the zhuangzi. read the cloud of unknowing. read the neoplatonists. read the dead sea scrolls. read the novels of lawrence durrell where half the book is just ne'er-do-well aristocrats talking about gnosticism. read the kabbalic exegesis of creation. read christian adopters of the kabbalic exegesis like boehme or eckhart or schelling and even if after all that you're still no closer to grasping the deep mysteries of a lame 90s japanese mystery novella then at least you'll have better points of reference than fucking x-men comics jesus fuck
    Last edited by Dullahan; July 18th, 2019 at 11:36 AM.
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  16. #956
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Ok then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  17. #957
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    I mean, he's not wrong.
    My fanfics:
    The Gift (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot)
    - A duel between Cú Chulainn and Scáthach.
    Passion Acknowledged (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot) (Lemon) - Shirou and Shinji finally acknowledge their feelings.
    He Was a Good King (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot) - A short exploration of Beowulf's character as a hero and a king.
    A Fairy Tale of Love and Death (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot) - A meeting between Scáthach and King Hassan in the distant past.

  18. #958
    See this is why dropping out of a convo is just straight up better

  19. #959
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpoonyViking View Post
    I mean, he's not wrong.
    No, he definitely isn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  20. #960
    Running away from Falconetti AsGryffynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    I mean, you literally can’t categorize it lol, that’s a plot point in Kara no Kyokai. Even just applying a name like “the root” takes you further away from what it actually is, which is why Void Shiki is referred to as “ ”.
    I'm going into a meta conversation. Like, what the place is if we start drawing fiction work comparisons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toa of Gallifrey View Post
    The root is like City of Silver in Bionicle maybe probably not actually it's nothing like it mcjon hit the nail on the head




    Eh, it's more Excaliblast than Ea right now.
    To be honest, that kind of works. For the record, I'm not going by the in universe it's just "insert empty space, but even by typing this, I'm no longer referring to it".


    Quote Originally Posted by LJ3 View Post
    This right here

    Is pretty telling

    I'm curious. What is it you're looking for from this fictional series? Because you're holding a lot of assumptions on what it should be to you instead of what it is.
    The ability to fit everything into a neat box called "categories". Like Akasha in Nasu has a parallel with other works of fiction like Bleach, Marvel, Tolkien, Narnia, Discworld and the like. It has to have stuff that could be compared. This is real life and not the Nasuverse, discuss this franchise like you would if you were a comic book critic and stop acting like it truly is some kind of religious bullshit!

    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    If you're really interested in making parallels then read the works and make a better case for such a comparison so that people don't laugh you out of this forum. Almost all of your problems seem to come from inaccurate info and misunderstanding what stuff does.
    I really am thinking of a way to psyche the Marvel circlejerk against you guys simply because you act rudely whenever someone asks you a straight question, but I'm not a sicko.

    Like, what more could you want? The WHR and Akasha have literally the same function. The only difference is that you can actually name the room in universe without it suddenly referring to something else because Chris Claremont didn't feel like going for pseudo-bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio View Post
    There is none because the " " in Nasu is a combination of multiple concepts from religions, mostly Wuji and Akasha

    One can visualize it as a location, and it's "kinda metaphysical" but like Mcjon said you can't categorize it. You don't even give it a name. All of the names it was given are based on similar things in various religions and theories.

    Because part of it is inspired by Wuji, and Wuji is referred to as Heaven, but this is not your western Heaven afterlife, it's instead just "something up there we don't know but we like to reach there". And then calling it Akasha/Root is referencing the Hinduism and Buddhism similarities. And then it storing records of all events from past, present, future is the Akashic Records. All of these terms and descriptions are from these various source, and " " has a bit of all these but not actually any of these. Using these names to call it only serves to make it more understandable to the plebs that is us readers, aka giving an analogy.

    Except that souls don't go there for incarnation, they become records of the past, like the heroic spirits are records of past phenomena. Their origin may or may not be reused for certain other beings and if you awaken it you can have a case like Lio in KnK where all of your past lives manifest all at once in the form of pure instinct that is driven by your origin.

    Incarnation only works in the age of gods where you have underworlds with certain underworld gods who will decided where to put you. After AoG it's literally "if you're dead, you're no longer exist, but be glad your origin shall be used for some new being later". That's why after AoG if your soul is no longer around as ghosts and went back to " ", not even True Magic can revive you. Mashu for example was only able to be revived due to the Time Temple being outside of spacetime and her soul is still lingering there after she get blasted.

    Except it isn't, like I pointed out.
    Phoenix Force:

    1. "I do that."
    2. "I can do that."
    3. "I can also do that!"

    Using these names to call it only serves to make it more understandable to the plebs that is us readers, aka giving an analogy.
    Pity I don't leave in the Nasuverse and we in real life have this thing called logic that let us rationalize everything with no exceptions, even if we can't explain exactly how it works.

    You're speaking of a work of fiction that you want to treat like a real world philosophy. Seriously? Treat The Root like the comic book construct it is!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    literally fucking anything

    but let us say you want specifically to come up with analogies to understand what " " is

    the answer is still anything. anything from the theosophical or esoteric side of any religion you care to name. read attar's "conference of the birds". read the discourses of the buddha. read the tao te ching. read the mumonkan. read keiji nishitani's "religion and nothingness". read the principal upanishads. read "creation" by gore vidal. read the zhuangzi. read the cloud of unknowing. read the neoplatonists. read the dead sea scrolls. read the novels of lawrence durrell where half the book is just ne'er-do-well aristocrats talking about gnosticism. read the kabbalic exegesis of creation. read christian adopters of the kabbalic exegesis like boehme or eckhart or schelling and even if after all that you're still no closer to grasping the deep mysteries of a lame 90s japanese mystery novella then at least you'll have better points of reference than fucking x-men comics jesus fuck
    You are implying TM is somehow superior to Marvel's Multiverse, the result of nearly 50 years of world building that moves far more than pretty much half the Japanese fiction industry!



    Quote Originally Posted by Zurvan View Post
    See this is why dropping out of a convo is just straight up better
    Yes it is, unfortunately I've exceeded my quota of "dropped convos".

    Let's treat fiction like fiction. Whether there are actual real world issues weaved into the setting is a story for another day, but nothing changes the fact destroying Akasha is as easy as Nasu saying "then ASBs appeared and devoured the Root and I'm rebooting TM. The End."

    Yet people want to insist it genuinely is some ineffable entity that we cannot compare. I'm not asking for in-universe comparisons. I'm asking for "if it looks like a spade, feels like a spade and acts like a spade, therefore it must be a spade" comparison regarding the role of X in one universe compared to the role of Z in another.

    The White Hot Room and Akasha operate on the same principles, with the added caveat of Akasha's ominous "mysteriosity".

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