A Touch of Heaven

[Prix with a Silent X]

I tried to google it and came up with results about a fictional character. I was at least relieved, in retrospect, that I wasn't being flippant about not knowing about some major historical figure I was meant to know about.

[warellis]

Er, yeah... I mean... a real person would probably be a more sensible match, but I just saw Bolshevik Revolution + handgun and that's where my mind went.

I was thinking either one of the soldiers who attempted to shoot the tsar and his family (only to find bullets bouncing off all the jewels they sowed into their clothing) or one of the conspirators who tried to kill Rasputin.

Also where is the "possess baby" idea for Zouken mentioned? Because that is horrifying.

[Prix with a Silent X]

Alright, so I'm not sure where the discussion of whether or not Sakura was ever really intended to give birth to an heir is because I feel like it exists but is scattered throughout? If someone wants to correct me or whatever, fine, but it was initially presumed that the next HGW was supposed to be in like 2040, right? So that would be the right time for a child of Sakura's to have reached adulthood if she procreated at a normal age. So that means that there was at least some contingency for this.

Then there's the "Zouken's End" chapter of HF where, when he believes that Sakura's mind has snapped irrevocably or that her soul has died or WHATEVER is going on here, he decides to go ahead and "take possession" of HER body. It says that he put his actual soul or essence into that tiny worm for the purpose of being able to do this eventually should the need arise, and the need arose because he was having a harder time maintaining the worm-bodies that he constructed by devouring people he murdered and because Kirei had killed the last one he had. I think that it seems reasonable to extrapolate that since the Zouken Worm was hidden away inside one of her nerves around her heart or something that this contingency had a longer and less extremely-specific-odd-circumstance-plan reasoning than this application. I think it's reasonable to extrapolate that he figured Sakura was so submissive to his will at the point at which he inserted his Soul Worm into her heart that he kind of figured that she would eventually provide him with a flesh body he could overtake in the way he plans to overtake Sakura's body in that chapter later on. He doesn't specifically want to kill Sakura, but he wants a new body, and his bullshit excuse is that taking over her body was a last resort and he pleads for his life, but she eats and digests him. It says that he ordered the Worm that was Him basically to "eat her brain" per the lparchive.

So, like, I kind of assume this would've eventually happened to a baby if she'd conceived one??? Otherwise why is the Zouken Soul Worm in there but not to kill or overtake Sakura immediately?

[warellis]

I always thought that little heart worm was where he stored his soul and he was sort of remote piloting his "old man bug body" from it.

[Prix with a Silent X]

That is true, but he was remote piloting his "body" before he had Sakura around. He moves his consciousness into little worm and placed it in her for some specific reason and it wsn't just doing that, from my understanding.

[SpoonyViking]

For what it's worth, I've seen other fics use that idea, too.

[warellis]

It does make me wonder how Zouken was able to maintain the fiction of being Byakuya & Kariya's "father" or Shinji's "grandfather" since he was centuries old by that point.

[Prix with a Silent X]

He's just ugly.

[warellis]

One random thing I've been thinking about: apparently anyone can perform alchemy??? It seems like Shinji is depicted as using it, and Waver uses it, and it just seems like yeah alchemy and chemistry are the same thing but are there certain compounds created with alchemy that have magecraft-y properties not known to modern science a la the aphrodisiac he used to fuck up Sakura's senses?

It required magical energy to activate. Like that glowing substance Shinji saw was reacting to Sakura, but not to him, since she had the magecraft in her.

You know looking on it, I wonder if a magus Shinji would've turned on and murdered Shirou early on. Then again I wonder if a magus Shinji would've ever been friends with him and I suspect not.

[Prix with a Silent X]

I don't think that's the case. I think that had Shinji been a magus, he would've been less inclined to violence. The reason that Shirou even considers Shinji his friend is that, apparently, at one point when they were like middle school age Shirou and Shinji actually got along. Shinji was not always so angry and embittered. Before he worked out that he was not special at all and that this stranger who was now supposed to be his sister was "getting his" as it were, despite how horrific the process was, he was apparently smug but not necessarily violent or vicious. Shirou isn't so stupid or doormat-ish that he would've considered Shinji his "friend" had there never been a point where he was, in fact, friendly in a way Shirou bought.

[warellis]

I don't think that's the case. I think that had Shinji been a magus, he would've been less inclined to violence. The reason that Shirou even considers Shinji his friend is that, apparently, at one point when they were like middle school age Shirou and Shinji actually got along. Shinji was not always so angry and embittered. Before he worked out that he was not special at all and that this stranger who was now supposed to be his sister was "getting his" as it were, despite how horrific the process was, he was apparently smug but not necessarily violent or vicious. Shirou isn't so stupid or doormat-ish that he would've considered Shinji his "friend" had there never been a point where he was, in fact, friendly in a way Shirou bought.

Ahh. I'm wondering, due to Shinji's smug attitude and superiority complex being sort of justified if he actually did have magical powers making him "special" and above the common masses of humanity, whether or not such a superiority complex kind of Shinji would've been too smug and jerkish to have become friends with Shirou when they were like 12-13.

Because Shinji does have a superiority complex so it makes me wonder if a magus Shinji would've been too proud or something.

[Prix with a Silent X]

I think that's one possible route. I think the other route is that a magus Shinji would've had every right to be sad and miserable like all the other Matou magi except Zouken who's cracked into gleeful sadism.

[warellis]

I think that's one possible route. I think the other route is that a magus Shinji would've had every right to be sad and miserable like all the other Matou magi except Zouken who's cracked into gleeful sadism.

You have a point there. Sometimes I wonder if the world would've been better off if Zouken had just died in London in the 1800s or during the 2nd or 3rd War. Or somehow was badly incapacitated before the 4th War.

[Prix with a Silent X]

I mean I don't think one has to wonder. I hate Zouken passionately lol.

[warellis]

I mean I don't think one has to wonder. I hate Zouken passionately lol.

Honestly, if it wasn't for the fact he was sort of explored more in side materials stuff, I'd say he was kind of a one-note character with a last-minute sob story.

Lots of stuff he does seems to be for cruelty's sake alone.

Makes me wonder how Tokiomi would've reacted if one could tell him Zouken's eventual fate for Sakura, thanks to the Grail, would've been to burn her out in experimentation before wearing her body briefly to attempt to take over a lump of curses to become immortal.

What a waste of talent there. To the point Sakura probably has no real desire for anything to do with magecraft except due to having to mearn stuff due to Rin dumping responsbility of being the 2nd Owner onto her.

Kind of a sad joke for Tokiomi's grand plans for her and Rin when you think on it.

Hell Tokiomi created practically every big dangerous problem needed to be solved by Rin & Shirou in the 5th War (Gil & Kirei) and (Dark Sakura & Zouken).

[Prix with a Silent X]

Father of the Year!!! I guess it could have been worse. Somehow.

- - - Updated - - -

Wait, it's Kiritsugu that the Corrupted Grail is Pregnant or whatever the hell. The fact that it was all ready to go again in ten years.

I also get mad at him easily.