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Thread: Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] - Ultimate Edition

  1. #501
    吸血鬼 Vampire Anonamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NM64 View Post
    Wait wait wait, are you talking about the contents of the installer itself?


    Uhhh, dude that's totally not at all what I've been saying which is why I've been confused. By a 7z archive and compression or the like, I am purely talking about packing the existing installer EXE as-is! Don't rebuild the installer or anything because that's completely unecessary and TBH seems like completely overthinking the issue here.

    (I can't help but think your viewing my comments through a "software coder" viewpoint when I'm purely coming from an "coding-inept end-user" viewpoint - like, recompressing the actual internal contents of the installer never even crossed my mind as even being a possibility)


    Seriously, just take the current EXEs, put them in a 7z archive, and that's it. You get 86MB total for both 32bit and 64bit, and everything works fine. Simple and straight forward. The end.
    Yes I know, the thing is when the installer tries to update itself it needs to be able to extract the archive.
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  2. #502
    Resident straight-male kuutsundere NM64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonamous View Post
    Yes I know, the thing is when the installer tries to update itself it needs to be able to extract the archive.
    ...but why? The entire benefit for using a 7z archive is to put both the 32bit and 64bit versions into a single archive, but the installer only needs a single version, so there's no reason for the version that the installer itself grabs to then be packaged in a 7z archive...or heck even be packaged in an archive at all.

    And even if you want it to remain packaged in an archive for whatever reason, why does the installer need to unpack it by itself? Can't the user just to that themselves? I could understand wanting to automatically unpack it if the new version would then automatically run, but currently doesn't the user still need to manually run the newly-download version?



    EDIT: And then there's the part where the entire existence of the 64bit installer is a bit questionable considering that the VN itself is 32bit...in which case one could argue that it'd make more sense to just leave everything as-is and just drop the 64bit installer altogether.
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  3. #503
    吸血鬼 Vampire Anonamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NM64 View Post
    ...but why? The entire benefit for using a 7z archive is to put both the 32bit and 64bit versions into a single archive, but the installer only needs a single version, so there's no reason for the version that the installer itself grabs to then be packaged in a 7z archive...or heck even be packaged in an archive at all.

    And even if you want it to remain packaged in an archive for whatever reason, why does the installer need to unpack it by itself? Can't the user just to that themselves? I could understand wanting to automatically unpack it if the new version would then automatically run, but currently doesn't the user still need to manually run the newly-download version?



    EDIT: And then there's the part where the entire existence of the 64bit installer is a bit questionable considering that the VN itself is 32bit...in which case one could argue that it'd make more sense to just leave everything as-is and just drop the 64bit installer altogether.
    Nope, if I hadn't broke it. Updating the installer updates it and then relaunches it. If the whole point in putting them in one archive is to save space, then why would we upload an archive with both of them, and then a separate one for each version on top of that?
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  4. #504
    Resident straight-male kuutsundere NM64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonamous View Post
    If the whole point in putting them in one archive is to save space
    Uhhh, it kind of isn't seeing as the combined 7z archive is pretty much the same size and the individual archives currently, and most people as well as the installer itself are only going to ever be needing to download one version rather than both...

    So in the end the bandwidth requirements aren't really any different for the normal end-user; the only time it would make a difference bandwidth wise is if you needed both versions anyway which is pretty much only for testing purposes and the like.
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  5. #505
    吸血鬼 Vampire Anonamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NM64 View Post
    Uhhh, it kind of isn't seeing as the combined 7z archive is pretty much the same size and the individual archives currently, and most people as well as the installer itself are only going to ever be needing to download one version rather than both...

    So in the end the bandwidth requirements aren't really any different for the normal end-user; the only time it would make a difference bandwidth wise is if you needed both versions anyway which is pretty much only for testing purposes and the like.
    Yes well I'm also kind of looking at it as lets not kill Jacks google drive lol. Also 7z really does not want to be supported.
    Last edited by Anonamous; Yesterday at 06:24 PM.
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  6. #506
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    ...hey wait a minute, can the installer's built-in updater automatically run and extract self-extracting 7z archives and then subsequently automatically run the newly-extracted installer?


    Original post
    Nevertheless, if we're going at it from a simplified logistics angle from just having one single package, once again one could make the argument that it'd be even more simplified to just drop the 64bit installer altogether (heck Win10 for ARM only supports 32bit x86 EXEs anyway).

    Then at that point we could just stick with the current ZIP archive method beacuse, as I just previously stated, the individual ZIP archives have essentially the same file size as the combined 7z archive, and would have the additional benefit of removing the need for having 3rd party archive extracting software installed (like 7zip, WinRAR, etc).
    Beast Lair's resident straight-male kuutsundere
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  7. #507
    吸血鬼 Vampire Anonamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NM64 View Post
    ...hey wait a minute, can the installer's built-in updater automatically run and extract self-extracting 7z archives and then subsequently automatically run the newly-extracted installer?


    Original post
    Nevertheless, if we're going at it from a simplified logistics angle from just having one single package, once again one could make the argument that it'd be even more simplified to just drop the 64bit installer altogether (heck Win10 for ARM only supports 32bit x86 EXEs anyway).

    Then at that point we could just stick with the current ZIP archive method beacuse, as I just previously stated, the individual ZIP archives have essentially the same file size as the combined 7z archive, and would have the additional benefit of removing the need for having 3rd party archive extracting software installed (like 7zip, WinRAR, etc).
    I can't get it to support 7z format, but yes. Didn't you test that for me and even stated that it did in fact work? You don't remember going through a bunch of revisions and then I had one where I said I was a dumbass and didn't realize that an executable could move itself in windows and that that simplified things?

    Also I just got it to support lzma so atleast can do zip with lzma compression. It comes out to 90Mb. Damn hidden imports had me baffled.
    Last edited by Anonamous; Yesterday at 07:01 PM.
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  8. #508
    Resident straight-male kuutsundere NM64's Avatar
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    I discovered a regression in the readme's contents between the Feb.18 0.9.0 version and the Mar.19 0.9.1 version.

    It's really minor and derpy, but it is still a regression nonetheless...


    The file "supported_games.png" found in the Mar.19 0.9.1 version is the old pre-public version that existed in builds back in like January or so, but it was updated between then and the initial public Feb.18 0.9.0 version...and the Mar.19 0.9.1 version regressed back to the old pre-public version.

    The most obvious difference is the file size - the updated Feb.18 0.9.0 version of "supported_games.png" is only 11KB while the older pre-public version is 23KB (there are other visual differences as well, but they may not be noticeable to the untrained eye).



    Quote Originally Posted by Anonamous View Post
    Didn't you test that for me and even stated that it did in fact work?
    I'm pretty sure I only said that 7zip supports self-extracting archives and didn't do any testing since I'd have no idea how to test that out with the installer's built-in update function (remember, I have no software dev skills!).

    Also last I checked, 7zip's normal self-extracting archive does not support automatically running any extracted files...at least by default. It might be possible, but I've no idea how to go about doing such a thing.

    And I recall one of you people being concerned about having people download EXE files? Technically you could cheat by giving it a 7z file extension instead and the likes of 7zip and WinRAR will still treat it like any old 7z archive.



    Quote Originally Posted by Anonamous View Post
    Also I just got it to support lzma so atleast can do zip with lzma compression. It comes out to 90Mb.
    Interestingly I can only get it down to 94MB with an LZMA-encoded ZIP...but whatever, personally I'd say 90MB is close enough.
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  9. #509
    吸血鬼 Vampire Anonamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NM64 View Post
    I discovered a regression in the readme's contents between the Feb.18 0.9.0 version and the Mar.19 0.9.1 version.

    It's really minor and derpy, but it is still a regression nonetheless...


    The file "supported_games.png" found in the Mar.19 0.9.1 version is the old pre-public version that existed in builds back in like January or so, but it was updated between then and the initial public Feb.18 0.9.0 version...and the Mar.19 0.9.1 version regressed back to the old pre-public version.

    The most obvious difference is the file size - the updated Feb.18 0.9.0 version of "supported_games.png" is only 11KB while the older pre-public version is 23KB (there are other visual differences as well, but they may not be noticeable to the untrained eye).





    I'm pretty sure I only said that 7zip supports self-extracting archives and didn't do any testing since I'd have no idea how to test that out with the installer's built-in update function (remember, I have no software dev skills!).

    Also last I checked, 7zip's normal self-extracting archive does not support automatically running any extracted files...at least by default. It might be possible, but I've no idea how to go about doing such a thing.

    And I recall one of you people being concerned about having people download EXE files? Technically you could cheat by giving it a 7z file extension instead and the likes of 7zip and WinRAR will still treat it like any old 7z archive.





    What about LZMA2?
    If you can send me the correct supported games image or link me to it I would appreciate it.

    Also 7zip doesn't appear to allow you to do zip with lzma2, only lzma shows up as an option.
    Last edited by Anonamous; Yesterday at 07:17 PM. Reason: Maybe I misunderstood
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  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonamous View Post
    If you can send me the correct supported games image or link me to it I would appreciate it.
    It's in the official Feb.18 v0.9.0 RAR download, but I can still send you a PM if you really want.


    Quote Originally Posted by Anonamous View Post
    Also 7zip doesn't appear to allow you to do zip with lzma2, only lzma shows up as an option.
    I know, hence my edit.
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  11. #511
    吸血鬼 Vampire Anonamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NM64 View Post
    It's in the official Feb.18 v0.9.0 RAR download, but I can still send you a PM if you really want.




    I know, hence my edit.
    Please. I would prefer to not have to redownload it. Also it appears there may have been a complete miscommunication that went unnoticed. Were you unaware that I was aiming to make the installer able to not only update the patches, but update itself and that is what the initial prompt on startup is for?
    ~ "I have no idea what I'm doing, but at least I'm trying."

  12. #512
    Resident straight-male kuutsundere NM64's Avatar
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    Here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EI...oypGQnB29CDiR2

    Keep in mind that I'll likely delete it from the link above at some point in the future (I dunno, maybe anywhere between a few weeks to a couple months from now?).


    Quote Originally Posted by Anonamous View Post
    Were you unaware that I was aiming to make the installer able to not only update the patches, but update itself and that is what the initial prompt on startup is for?
    I'm well aware of this considering that I had several criticisms about how you went about prompting the user when you had me test this stuff a few weeks back.
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  13. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by NM64 View Post
    Here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EI...oypGQnB29CDiR2

    Keep in mind that I'll likely delete it from the link above at some point in the future (I dunno, maybe anywhere between a few weeks to a couple months from now?).




    I'm well aware of this considering that I had several criticisms about how you went about prompting the user when you had me test this stuff a few weeks back.
    Ok I just wanted to be sure.
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  14. #514
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    When I was playing around with the UBW OPs for PS2 and Vita, I noticed there's a pretty distinct volume difference between the two.

    I'll try to keep that in mind when we replace said OPs with higher quality versions in whatever future version that will be since volume balance and gain levels is actually a really easy thing to fix with AAC audio (which is pwhat we're using for the MP4 video files).



    EDIT: Yeah, according to foobar2000 the audio in the PS2 UBW OP is 10dB louder than the audio in the Vita UBW OP.

    I mean, technically it's such a quick and easy fix we could do it right here and now - it's so simple one of you non-audio experts could even do it:

    1. open foobar2000
    2. put all the according MP4 video files into its playlist
    3. highlight all of the files in foobar2000's playlist
    4. right click on the highlighted items in foobar2000's playlist
    5. in the right-click menu that appeared, navigate to "ReplayGain" -> "Scan per-file track gain"
    6. after it finishes processing and a new window appears, click the button "Update File Tags"
    7. once again, right click on the highlighted items in foobar2000's playlist
    8. this time, in the right-click menu, navigate to "ReplayGain" -> "Apply track ReplayGain to file content"
    9. in the pop-up message box that appears, click the button "Understood, continue"

    ...and that's it! Repack your newly volume-corrected MP4s into the patch_op.xp3 file and call it a day.



    EDIT 2: Still not easy enough? Here's a BPS rom-patch file for the existing newest patch_op.xp3 archive to apply the above-mentioned audio volume fix (I will likely delete this file anywhere from a few weeks to a couple months from now):
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=15-...jo4IvakMD97Kr2

    If you aren't familiar with BPS rom-patch files, they can be applied via a traditional offline program like Floating IPS or via a browser-based javascript app like Rom Patcher JS (select the original newest patch_op.xp3 for the "rom file", the CRC32 should be "71c67f65"; also note that all processing occurs locally so nothing gets uploaded anywhere).
    Last edited by NM64; Today at 02:23 AM.
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  15. #515
    Ah right, my disappearance was BEFORE I got good sound design lessons at film school.

    After actually learning sound design I pretty much cringed every time I went back to any editing work I did beforehand because of how horrifically inconsistent my audio was. I once did a series of UBW anime character CM style videos for the FSN cast but now I'm like "christ how could I not notice such an obvious problem."

    Rambling aside, aren't we going to do a bunch of touchup work on these videos anyway? We might as well just fix the mixing while we're doing that. It wouldn't be hard for me to do at all in any editor.
    Memorable quotes



    Quote Originally Posted by Kinoko Nasu
    So as to stimulate the reader's imagination, I try not to write too clearly about mechanics and characters' inner workings.
    Quote Originally Posted by UnlimitedBladeWorks
    In all honesty the Ufo Anime should've included a switch that let people chose what route they wanted to watch.

  16. #516
    Okay so someone remind me, didn't we fix an issue where changing quality settings in the music menu was causing crashes? Because I seem to be running into one.
    Memorable quotes



    Quote Originally Posted by Kinoko Nasu
    So as to stimulate the reader's imagination, I try not to write too clearly about mechanics and characters' inner workings.
    Quote Originally Posted by UnlimitedBladeWorks
    In all honesty the Ufo Anime should've included a switch that let people chose what route they wanted to watch.

  17. #517
    Resident straight-male kuutsundere NM64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacktheinfinite101 View Post
    aren't we going to do a bunch of touchup work on these videos anyway? We might as well just fix the mixing while we're doing that. It wouldn't be hard for me to do at all in any editor.
    Well the main thing is that I'm not really quite ready to deal with that kind of heavier-duty stuff just yet, and the volume fix the for videos was so stupidly easy to do, hence why I went through and implemented a fix myself here and now.

    ...also it gave me an excuse to test out using BPS patch files for more drastic changes, and I'm pleased to see it only resulted in a 20MB file size (which is much better than the 700+MB size that all of the MP4 videos would take up in total).



    I mean, if you want to do the video stuff purely on your own then that's fine, but just know that I don't think I'll be able to do much at all in the mean time.

    ...and from an OCD audiophile perspective, the way I did the volume fix was completely lossless.
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  18. #518
    Ever thought about using xdelta3 as delta patch? Even Google Chrome uses the same standardized format for updates to the program.

  19. #519
    Resident straight-male kuutsundere NM64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uyjulian View Post
    Ever thought about using xdelta3 as delta patch?
    Part of the reason BPS was developed is because xdelta3 was unsatisfactory. I don't remember the details, but I believe xdelta3 is a considerably more complicated format that makes the likes of soft-patching in emulators considerably more difficult to implement (snes9x for example supports BPS soft patching).


    For one thing, Floating IPS is a much simpler BPS creation software than the equivalent xdelta3 creation software I could find (though I admittedly needed to use a pre-release 64bit version of Floating IPS in order to not run into memory address limitations when working with larger files). Also other PC games, like AM2R, receive fan-made patch updates in BPS format.

    Besides, BPS was created by byuu (the creater of bsnes which is literally, not figuratively, the world's most accurate SNES emulator) which gives it much more credibility in my book than Google using xdelta3 (I don't even use Chrome as my primary browser anyway).


    In general, in rom hacking circles, BPS tends to be the closest thing to a successor to the IPS format while formats like xdelta3 and UPS tend to exist as older sort of "in-between" formats for projects that either predated BPS (GoldenEye X comes to mind) or were created by people that couldn't use IPS (16MB limit) but weren't all that aware of newer and better stuff (kind of like people using animated GIFs rather than animated PNG or MP4/WebM)
    Last edited by NM64; Today at 03:24 PM. Reason: because
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