Maybe it's the dictionaries you're picking up... mine either go pronunciation then strokes, or strokes then radicals.
It's possible. For a long time I was used to this really great (and heavy) Chinese dictionary, haven't found a Japanese dictionary that matches it yet.
Technically, it's supposed to be radical (sorted by stroke count), then stroke count of everything besides the radical.
Not really having this problem anymore because I got a game/app for my DS so I can use handwriting recognition. Normally dedicated electronic dictionaries with that function are pretty expensive.
Last edited by mewarmo990; November 30th, 2011 at 01:04 PM.
We just had some discussion about this little bit from the HF tutorial:
S:「得点にするには役を作っていく必要があります」Our take was that it's just a pun on 役 = 薬, thus "making" a magical potion (I don't really get the reference to butterflies and ash, though :-/)L:「どんなヤク？ちょうちょがヒラヒラしたり、魔法のお水でハイになったり」
Anyone see a better/correct interpretation?
Wait, I don't know who translated that part on Entrans, but how did that person get "ashes" from that sentence? Sounds more like getting "high" off of magical water... basically, drugs (薬).
Are we missing some kind of reference here?
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Heh, I saw it as "灰になる" (to be cremated), too, but "high" might actually make sense. Liz is supposed to be speaking broken Japanese...Originally Posted by aquamarine39
I still don't get what do butterflies have to do with it, though.
Whatever the pun is, it's going to be lost in translation anyway.
Yeah, the "yaku" is a pun on drugs, second part seems to be about getting high off the magic water and seeing pretty butterflies and whatnot. I could be wrong here, because it seems kind of random to me. Liz is pretty random, though.
As for how we should translate a pun, I can't think of anything off the top of my head. However, considering the multitude of euphemisms/slang for drugs, I'm sure we can come up with something. Or not, we could leave "yaku" when Liz mentions it and just write it off as her bad Japanese.
However, that pun aside, the main use of "yaku" is best described as a scoring combination/hand during a game.
"To score points with the cards, you must create a winning hand."
So get rid of all the other untranslated "yaku" throughout the page. And someone needs to check the rest of the page. For example:
Nope. Literally, "...Well, there is that sort of 'yaku' as well. Concerning scoring hands [yaku], however, please take a look [at some sort of table, I presume]. It is rather simple at first"「...I regret to inform you that no such yaku exists.[br][hfstopsweat][hffacechg chara=セラ face=楽 layer=1 time=200] Please use the list of yaku here as a reference」
Hope this helps.
Last edited by mewarmo990; July 4th, 2011 at 06:09 PM.
Mm, I don't entirely agree. It's a specific Hanafuda term that (as far as I can tell) is often used under its untranslated name (we had "hand" before, but decided on "yaku" to avoid more confusion).
Yeah, it does stray a little far at times. I'll go over the whole scene once we have the major stuff - terminology and puns - ironed out.And have someone check the rest of the page. For example...
Ha. That's no excuse for not fully understanding it in the first place.
Arai-san!
We need an expert opinion.
I don't think it's specific to hanafuda/koikoi, I believe it's used to refer to scoring in other games too (mahjong, poker, etc). But I know nothing about either of those, so.
Translating "gozaimasu" as "there isn't" is pretty major.Yeah, it does stray a little far at times. I'll go over the whole scene once we have the major stuff - terminology and puns - ironed out.
Sorry, but I don't see the sense in it. In these types of games, a hand is a hand by definition. I've looked up hanafuda's rules myself, and there's no real reason to keep it "yaku" when functionally it is just another hand like in any card game. Well, specifically, a winning/scoring hand.
If you insist on keeping it as "yaku", you had better explain that it means a scoring hand, sort of like I did in my example translation.
That's the problem - the two are pretty distinct, and we need to use both terms. A "hand" is used to refer to what's known as 手札 in HF - cards that you have that are NOT part of yaku (which, in regular card games, may also form part of "scoring hands"). Cards that form "yaku" are set aside (no longer in play) and are visible to the opponent (in our case, some NPs can form yakus themselves).
I think the tutorial does a pretty good job of explaining it for Western players already, but yeah, we might have to amend it a little. Most of HF is already done and very much playable, though, so I'd rather keep changes to a minimum.
You canHa. That's no excuse for not fully understanding it in the first place.
Arai-san!
We need an expert opinion.
a) Skip it and work on other things for a while and let the thing nag you until you get a sudden EUREKA moment.
b) Just translate what's there and anticipate what other people will say about it and live in constant fear.
c) Prioritize flow and make use of rubies (footnotes to translation notes, or?).
Oh, please. If you have a good way to word the entire exchange, keep the jokes and tone of conversation, go ahead and edit it.
I'll get to it in due time. We could have a discussion like this for every single line in HF scenes. I am trying to post just the ones we really could use feedback on.
That's our default mode.
I guess we got our answer. Liz is talking about getting high on drugs and seeing butterflies.
That is unrelated to the fact that that line was wrong. Calm down man.
As for how to keep the joke, I would say "don't", because "yaku" does not sound like "drugs" in English anyway.
I'm not sure who did the tutorial translation, but I'll definitely look through the whole thing.
The current translation does a fairly good job of explaining the game in English (well, the whole point of a tutorial). I am not sure whether the translator achieved that at the cost of not strictly following Japanese original script.
Although glaring errors in translation should be changed, I am actually willing to keep anything that sounds okay. It's a tutorial for goodness sake. Our main goal is to teach the game.
About the 役 / 薬 debate, I am rather strongly in favor of going with "yaku."
At first, I chose to translate it to "hand" thinking of poker hands like mewarmo. Then, there is really no way to translate 手札 as ranmafan mentioned. In card games, "hands" are cards you have in your hand, literally. Winning combinations are called "hands" in poker because cards in your hands are directly used for forming winning combos. In Hanafuda, winning combos are not formed with cards in your hand. There is a significant difference.
About Leysritt's goofy dialogue... Probably put in a ruby text explanation? We can't completely ignore it because then, that dialogue makes zero sense.
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Please don't do this.Probably put in a ruby text explanation?
The way I see it, 手札 is 'hand', while 役 can be 'winning hand'. But I'm not the one working that section, so it's your decision. And like I said before, keeping "yaku" is not itself a problem as long as you explain clearly enough what that means.
As for Liz's stupid pun, we have a few choices here.
1) Keep the related mentions of "yaku" in their entirety, therefore not making any sense to English readers
2) Come up with a brilliantly equivalent English pun
3) Replace it with another joke entirely (which, I've noticed, seems to be standard operating procedure for commercial localizers)
*Can also do ruby text, but we are trying to keep it at a minimum since it doesn't work well in English
Or you could go with a combination of #1 and #2 like Arai said, and just put something there as a placeholder until you get a sudden inspiration later on and fix it.
Last edited by mewarmo990; July 4th, 2011 at 11:54 PM.
That'd probably be for the best. Rewriting jokes and such is the job of the editor later on anyway, I'm assuming.Or you could go with a combination of #1 and #2 like Arai said, and just put something there as a placeholder until you get a sudden inspiration later on and fix it.
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