Metaphysics of the Nasuverse
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ics_theory.png
A Friend of mine made this pic to better showcase what we think is how the metaphysics of the Nasuverse, specifically Textures of the world, works. Please rip this apart if it's wrong and explain why
Last edited by Void Shiki; December 29th, 2019 at 05:53 PM. Reason: grammar error
Void Doesn't actually have Clairvoyance. Her Skill is Different. Void is literally the Root manifesting in a human vessel. The Root has no identity or personality or sense of self, it's not a living thing. But when it's channeled into a vessel, the inherent values of that vessel (Having a brain, and thus an identity, personality and sense of self) are influenced by the influx of content from the Root. The Root is everything, which is why the defining Characteristic of Void in KnK is the horrifying existential dread of knowing too much. She just wants to not exist.
good luck with that one
I guess a good start would be specifying what you mean by metaphysics, because physics implies an ushakeable law, and that's where we run into problems, what with the whole setting running on fee-fees and self-subversion.
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I do appreciate how the chart totally looks like something a cult member would hand you, though.
Where to start...? I don't think there's a single correct thing in here... But let's do one thing at a time I guess..
"True Earth": As far as we know, underneath ALL the layers, the Earth should just be a big smoldering rock floating around in outer space, there's nothing mystical or inherently more "true" about that.
"Layer - own cosmology [...]": This is some wild conjecture, and I'd say faulty one at that. Regarding the Ishtar thing, it's not because it's the AoG Venus that it's a "copy, not a real planet", but rather because what she does is she pulls the "concept of venus" and loads it up as a venus-shaped bullet, that effectively comes out as shooting the planet. I'll get to why the cosmology thing isn't correct either later on, though.
"Single universe": Okay so let me just say, I understand where he's coming from here, but it's not correct. The "Each alternate world is in fact another layer of the planet" obviously comes from the concept of lostbelts (where alternate timelines are placed upon the planet just like textures are), but I don't believe it's right to just extrapolate it like this. Lostbelts are a very specific case - one we still don't fully understand - but it's safer to not include conjecture based on them in stuff like this. Regarding the universes, we already know that timelines exist adjacent to each other in a "tree of time" of sorts. If one timeline branches too far from the rest, it gets pruned since it's no good. However, there are also different "trunks" of this tree (is probably the easiest way to explain it), or at least that's the common consensus so as to explain the "alternate versions" such as Prototype, Prillya, EXTRA, Tsukihime, etc. Bottom line though is that timeline = texture is not correct, even more so when one timeline includes several textures (our "main timeline" has at least 4 textures layered on the planet).
"Pruning": The one correct thing in this image, I guess, is that it's the world itself doing the pruning of timelines. But to be more precise, it's the human counter force, Alaya, which is implied (if not outright confirmed) to be responsible. In order words, the reason timelines get pruned and cater to human history is because the human order, and the human collective will to survive, is what governs timelines. However, one thing that's very important here...
Gaia does NOT have a reality marble. This is some weird fanon which became pretty widespread (on sites like Reddit especially) a long time ago, and I'm not sure where it comes from (maybe Gil/Ea stuff?). There's no gaia/earth RM, it's just the planet with magical layers on top of it which dictate how the laws of physics work.
Now, it's also correct, I guess, to say that it "functions by its own rules", but we'll get to that as well.
Based on the above now, we can also safely take apart the Imaginary Number blurb. The planet isn't a self-internalized universe unto itself, timelines aren't "islands" located "on" the planet, and just in general, this is not how INS works. The only reason we can "travel to alternate timelines" through it is because these timelines are literally fastened to the surface of the planet in FGO, so when you dive into INS (and enter what is effectively a pocket/deeper dimension), and then resurface at another place, ending up in a lostbelt, it's the same as driving from point A to point B on the surface, you just dove under the big obstacles in your way.
Now, as for the cosmology I mentioned earlier, and the "physical universe" part of the image... See, the real answer is that we just don't know EXACTLY how it all works related to this, but there are many implications, what with the human texture deciding the physical laws of the universe (obviously this applies to space as well or it wouldn't make any sense), timelines are governed by alaya (meaning that if a timeline gets pruned because earth is bad, space goes with it), the whole trichiliocosm = supercluster or whatever thing from Suzuka's NP and the Fantasy Trees and all that stuff - all of this just more or less implies that all of space (to a certain extent, observable universe perhaps?) plays by humanity's, or rather the current earth texture's rules, aka its laws of physics. That's not to say that different planets can't have weird-ass stuff of their own (like what the fuck is ORT and Velber really), but as far as the implications go, it's not a case of "multiple spheres of different laws of physics".
Of course, that last bit here is also conjecture and a bit of guessing, and I might've missed some stuff while looking over this quickly, but point is that it's at the very least really incorrect.
Originally Posted by Mcjon01
Thank for the reply, that clears things up A LOT.
I really should listen to Nasu's advise in regards to 'not to think too hard about it'!
Void Doesn't actually have Clairvoyance. Her Skill is Different. Void is literally the Root manifesting in a human vessel. The Root has no identity or personality or sense of self, it's not a living thing. But when it's channeled into a vessel, the inherent values of that vessel (Having a brain, and thus an identity, personality and sense of self) are influenced by the influx of content from the Root. The Root is everything, which is why the defining Characteristic of Void in KnK is the horrifying existential dread of knowing too much. She just wants to not exist.
@savepoints
Why dont we consider timelines as being unique to each planet? How then can we justify the Quantum Time Locks being derived from human events and that Goetia could remake the timelines from scratch via only changing the Earth and requiring only more energy than what the planet can produce?
Last edited by fire_mountain_30; December 29th, 2019 at 09:05 AM.
I don't really get the question about Goetia.
But as far as I'm concerned (although it's an unsupported guess, really) the way timelines work and the "influence of earth stretching into space" is a result of the human texture (like every other law of physics). The reason being that during the AoG, there wasn't just one texture at the surface level of the planet, but each region sort of had its own AoG texture (which is how they fit all mythologies in while still going with "all of it is true") so you can't exactly have all of them extending out into the observable universe and affecting it. There also hasn't really been any indication that gaia governed timelines the way alaya does for humanity during the AoG (unless I missed it), so I just don't really think it was a thing in the past.
I agree with that. I said "confined to the planet" more so because the texture doesnt extend further than that yet and will expand once we go into space.
Goetia's plan was to amass more energy than the planet could produce and use that to travel to the past, remake and change the earth and as a result unmake the timelines as we know them (this last bit seems to be the accepted consensus of what the secondary consequences of his plan would cause, given that you would now have timelines with a deathless human race)
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I also dont think that saying that Gaia has a RM is completely wrong. It is just an easier way to say that it aggregates a lot of smaller pocket realities and that it has a larger prevailing set of rules. I think that this term was just an easier way to explain a lot of these concepts because RM were an easy thing to understand and Layers werent a big thing back then. It was just "dubbing" for the sake of making things easier.
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