Fate/Samurai Remnant

[Formless Creature]

Also I don't care about the whole "this religion is better than the other in TM" since it is fictional takes of just one Japanese writer. Anyone can write and wank about any religion in any work. In fact, despite being a Buddhist, I don't think it should be portrayed as powerful as it is in TM, since the spirit of it is not about any of that godly flashy stuffs nor about the religion itself being better than the others.

It doesn't really matter, that's true. I should just note though that there will be people that care and instances where it matters to them and I think the writers exercise basic courtesy in trying to avoid such scenarios if they can help it. Ultimately though I think it just comes down to a matter of "how do you represent multiple religions in the same setting without betraying the ideas behind them" and the answer is "just ignore it until you can't lol"

In any case I'm just happy to have a setting where Christianity doesn't feel like it was written by someone who was raised in a very bad fundamentalist household trying to get back at THE MAN. Basic inaccuracies or other such nonsense is fine by me so long as there is an effort to be respectful or at the very least curious. What bothers me isn't inaccuracy or even ignorance, but rather either deliberate malice or a fundamental lack of a desire to understand another person's ideas and beliefs. So long as I feel like something is written by someone who genuinely cares, I can excuse any mistake or unusual choice (see Tezcatlipoca).

[tsugumi]

I don't think of Nasu as being an especially insensitive person. He's always rather respectful when it comes to the idea of other religions and cultures. In fact, I actually quite like his take on Christianity because it doesn't feel like an unnecessarily edgy take down of it like a lot of other media tends to do (durr god is evil and satan is good). I personally think that he probably would go out of his way to avoid anything that would come across as putting down another religion or making it feel insignificant. Even if on the surface it appears like he's doing that, he's really not - he has quite a decent amount of respect and interest in other people's cultures and ideas. In general, my impression of Nasu is that he is really quite a nice person.
Of course, extreme purists are always going to take issue with things (see the designs of the Hindu Servants drawing controversy), but I personally think that when it comes to religion, being true to the spirit is better than being true to the letter. Mileage may vary. I say this as someone who is kinda sorta Christian but also not really.

Intentions don't make heresy not heresy. Like, I know some Christian denominations can be very loosey-goosey/forgiving about what is/isn't heretical, but other denominations/religions are extremely clear about what heresy is to them (and how Nasu/TM has committed it).

Like yeah I'll still keep drinking that garbage, but "um, well, actually, I think he tried, and that should count for something"- ing it is a fool's errand. Just make your peace that you're engaging with a canon eventually most of the world's population would consider wildly offensive.

[Random]

It can still be a tough fight since heroic spirit anecdotes and so on, like how Diarmuid vs boars, Tamamo vs arrows, Orion vs poison. SusanoO slain the snake using his other sword Ame-no-Habakiri and that's not what Yamato has, so this case would be more of using the owner's sword to try and slay the owner, rather than using a weapon that had the anecdote of killing said enemy.

I also wonder if we have a moment of sword borrowing like Shirou using Caliburn, where Iori borrows one of Saber's sword.

Mythologically speaking, Takeru actually handed off Kusanagi to someone else specifically in order to go fight Ibuki-daimyoujin unarmed. Depending on the telling, he either lost outright, or it was a mutual kill due to venom a la Thor vs Jormungandr.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Mythologically speaking, Takeru actually handed off Kusanagi to someone else specifically in order to go fight Ibuki-daimyoujin unarmed. Depending on the telling, he either lost outright, or it was a mutual kill due to venom a la Thor vs Jormungandr.

Yep, to Miyazuhime, at least from the version I read, and it was intentional.

[Random]

"Master, hold this for me while the serpent of yore catches these hands"

[Lily Emilio]

Mythologically speaking, Takeru actually handed off Kusanagi to someone else specifically in order to go fight Ibuki-daimyoujin unarmed. Depending on the telling, he either lost outright, or it was a mutual kill due to venom a la Thor vs Jormungandr.

Also an interesting way it can repeat for the rematch yeah. Something like Saber insists on rematch without using the swords while Iori tries to help (hopefully without the good old "YOU ARE A GIRL, SABER" if Saber is genderbent). Or this time they acknowledge Iori's strength as a samurai (to resolve the "you're weak" line Saber said to him early on) and Iori is the one slaying the snek.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

"Master, hold this for me while the serpent of yore catches these hands"

Surely they wouldn't be so careless as to repeat their own legend right? ...Right?

Also an interesting way it can repeat for the rematch yeah. Something like Saber insists on rematch without using the swords while Iori tries to help (hopefully without the good old "YOU ARE A GIRL, SABER" if Saber is genderbent). Or this time they acknowledge Iori's strength as a samurai (to resolve the "you're weak" line Saber said to him early on) and Iori is the one slaying the snek.

I'm confident he won't say that after meeting Musashi. Then again, who knows.

[Formless Creature]

Intentions don't make heresy not heresy. Like, I know some Christian denominations can be very loosey-goosey/forgiving about what is/isn't heretical, but other denominations/religions are extremely clear about what heresy is to them (and how Nasu/TM has committed it).

Like yeah I'll still keep drinking that garbage, but "um, well, actually, I think he tried, and that should count for something"- ing it is a fool's errand. Just make your peace that you're engaging with a canon eventually most of the world's population would consider wildly offensive.

Apologies if it came off that way, but my post wasn't really an attempt at trying to imply that what TM has written is not heretical (to others, not me), but rather, that I think it would be uncharacteristic of them to do something that would obviously put down another religion, because to do so would demonstrate a remarkable lack of care for what that religion is and represents. Essentially what I'm trying to argue is not "Nasu is not a heretic" but rather "Nasu is not an incurious and self-centered person who utilizes religion to prop up his own beliefs". Basically, is he an edgy Reddit atheist or does he just think those ideas are cool? My money is on the latter. And of course, using religion for 'cool factor' is indeed considered WILDLY heretical for a lot of people, but that's not something I'm actually concerned with, because that ship sailed a long time ago.

The strictness of many religions is why I don't really interact with organized religion very much, despite not technically being completely atheistic. I'm a very intent over action kind of person, but if there's anything my household has taught me, for some people it's only actions that matter. Of course I know that, I'm not naive. But those people are not the ones whose opinions I'm concerned with. Also it is literally impossible to avoid offending everyone.

What it basically comes down is "would Nasu make Seimei actually a cooler guy than another religion's head deity because Seimei is just that much of a badass" and the answer is that I think he would avoid the subject as much as possible.

[Hawkeye]

"Master, hold this for me while the serpent of yore catches these hands"

This is one of the best interpretations of legend I have read. XD

[NMR-3]

This is Nasu, Typemoon we're talking about. Did you ever see them bother with offending any religions with their takes? Not sure why you think I am putting down your culture or w/e. I am giving an information that something like that is there IRL, and Nasu is a writer who loves doing syncretisms, thus there is a possibility of him using such info.

Except that we don't anything about each other's dads here to even make a reasonable guess, irrelevant comparison. Here we have one who is Grand Caster material who is known, in lore, to have a bunch of ridiculous magecrafts specifically for not dying, that is currently argued by people here to be Caster, yknow, his best class, in his own country. Then another char who is well-established in the franchise. This shouldn't even be a debate, even if you don't know the specifics you can still make debates base on such info. And also, if you don't want to see any of these, why are you reading and replying? Just skip through them.

Okay. My dad is 61, 1m96, no professional fighting training to my knowledge except for being a football fan, iron plate in his skull so he can probably take a punch or two to the dome. History of alcoholism and hernia-ridden but temperamental. Balding makes his head like the sun + manboobs so he's got 50-50 odds of being a Tamamo.

I'm reading and replying not just because I think powerlevels are stupid and deserve mockery whenever possible. The fact you're using it like a club to claim your guy is Jesus five times over so he's the strongerest makes it extra stupid to me. It's a fact, maybe, but it's cherrypicked facts that they're free to ignore and that adds absolutely nothing to making this hypothetical Seimei an actual interesting character and which again you're using to claim superiority over others in incredibly lame playgroundesque fashion.

[Kamera]

Power levels are the one thing that always set off the fans huh. Can't say I get it.

I think there's a fine line between regular power levels discussion and purely narcisstic head canon fanfiction.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

I'm reading and replying not just because I think powerlevels are stupid and deserve mockery whenever possible. The fact you're using it like a club to claim your guy is Jesus five times over so he's the strongerest makes it extra stupid to me. It's a fact, maybe, but it's cherrypicked facts that they're free to ignore and that adds absolutely nothing to making this hypothetical Seimei an actual interesting character and which again you're using to claim superiority over others in incredibly lame playgroundesque fashion.

Ah, okay then. I was mistaken.

[tsugumi]

Okay. My dad is 61, 1m96, no professional fighting training to my knowledge except for being a football fan, iron plate in his skull so he can probably take a punch or two to the dome. History of alcoholism and hernia-ridden but temperamental. Balding makes his head like the sun + manboobs so he's got 50-50 odds of being a Tamamo.

Damn, and I thought I had a problem with oversharing.

[Lily Emilio]

Okay. My dad is 61, 1m96, no professional fighting training to my knowledge except for being a football fan, iron plate in his skull so he can probably take a punch or two to the dome. History of alcoholism and hernia-ridden but temperamental. Balding makes his head like the sun + manboobs so he's got 50-50 odds of being a Tamamo.

I'm reading and replying not just because I think powerlevels are stupid and deserve mockery whenever possible. The fact you're using it like a club to claim your guy is Jesus five times over so he's the strongerest makes it extra stupid to me. It's a fact, maybe, but it's cherrypicked facts that they're free to ignore and that adds absolutely nothing to making this hypothetical Seimei an actual interesting character and which again you're using to claim superiority over others in incredibly lame playgroundesque fashion.

I think there's a fine line between regular power levels discussion and purely narcisstic head canon fanfiction.

I myself don't like powerlevels and openly express my distaste for it multiple times before, so I actually 100% agree with you guys here.

Raff comment is obviously a joke about instant kill Cursed Arm, so I replied with pointing out the shikigamis exists (the same thing Douman used), a Clairvoyant can predict the attack and evading it by just staying outside of range (also canon), the other abilities are pretty much just...mythical references that I feel fair to mention. Kamera replied with the Allah joke, and I replied with a syncretism joke about Allah (something I do all the time because I just like bringing syncretism up to poke at its absurdity IRL)

Maybe I am just Cyno, whose jokes are never funny, and it gets even less funny as I try to explain it. My apology.

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The one thing I was 100% serious about tho, is that I don't think Seimei would fight in a HGW given how he is portrayed (my reply to fumei).

[bassgs435]

This arguing over Seimei is hilarious because Shirou still being alive didn’t prevent Archer from being summoned ( twice. In FSN/HA and Prisma). So even if Seimei’s still alive in SR time, he could be summoned And ORT being TM’s ultimate powerwank spider alient thing didn’t prevent them from using it in LB7. So, Seimei’s too OP to ever be a character feels bullshit. Like is he really more OP than the likes of Karna or Arjuna?
This feels like the “Jalter whouldn’t exist outside of FGO” shit but now it’s powerwank about how Seimei’s too cool to ever be a servant or whatever

[tsugumi]

wasn't "jalter shouldn't exist outside FGO" something FGO said

[Paulie25]

Also an interesting way it can repeat for the rematch yeah. Something like Saber insists on rematch without using the swords while Iori tries to help (hopefully without the good old "YOU ARE A GIRL, SABER" if Saber is genderbent). Or this time they acknowledge Iori's strength as a samurai (to resolve the "you're weak" line Saber said to him early on) and Iori is the one slaying the snek.

I would mention it seems they call him weak not due to his swordsmanship. The line is specifically about how they’re disappointed that Iori seems to have nothing but the sword in his life. It feels similar to how some had disgust at Shirou’s one track mind regarding being a Hero of Justice and how it was all he thought about. They might be saying he’s weak in spirit or character because of it, and his true potential can only be unlocked by expanding his horizons perhaps?

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wasn't "jalter shouldn't exist outside FGO" something FGO said

Yeah it was an interlude last year. Which, btw, I feel like the timing of this should be noted. Higashide I imagine wrote that interlude, and he’d have been working on SR at this same time and now SR comes out right after that. Higashide wouldn’t contradict himself right after Imo so I think the idea is the interlude was supposed to set up this plot point in SR and make us feel that something’s off. The design being slightly off like no Ahoge adds to it Imo.

[Lily Emilio]

This feels like the “Jalter whouldn’t exist outside of FGO” shit but now it’s powerwank about how Seimei’s too cool to ever be a servant or whatever

Nobody said he's too cool to be a servant, my point is "there's no real point of using him as a servant for this HGW settings given his Merlin-like attitude", a character who generally doesn't have a lot of motivations to actively do things. And because there are other options can be used (Seimei isn't the only powerful Onmyouji in Japan, he's not even the strongest when you count the Shuugendou people, he's just...the most famous). Obviously that's just my opinion, feel free to disagree. I mean, Solomon is right there if you want to argue that point, since he still answered to Marisbilly summoning.

Now do I think he'll pull a Merlin and randomly shows up in FGO? Yes, yes he would. Because that's better gacha money scheme.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

This arguing over Seimei is hilarious because Shirou still being alive didn’t prevent Archer from being summoned ( twice. In FSN/HA and Prisma). So even if Seimei’s still alive in SR time, he could be summoned And ORT being TM’s ultimate powerwank spider alient thing didn’t prevent them from using it in LB7. So, Seimei’s too OP to ever be a character feels bullshit. Like is he really more OP than the likes of Karna or Arjuna?
This feels like the “Jalter whouldn’t exist outside of FGO” shit but now it’s powerwank about how Seimei’s too cool to ever be a servant or whatever

No one said that Seimei couldn't be a Servant though? Just that he's not the type to involve himself directly, not about how it's impossible for him to appear at all.

[Lily Emilio]

No one said that Seimei couldn't be a Servant though? Just that he's not the type to involve himself directly, not about how it's impossible for him to appear at all.

Yes, thank you.