Magic: the Gathering - T: Add Three Mana Of Any One Colour To Your Mana Pool

[Seika]

For wolves, wild hunt and Odin references, that's a card I'd really like to make work in something. I have to wonder, though - is there any reason the tap ability doesn't say fight? I know Polukranos is the same, but it seems like having multi-target fights would be similar enough.

First, I know a lot of the "new" evergreen keywords got introduced in FST, but Fight wasn't one of them. We got that in ISD thanks to the gorgeously simple design of Prey Upon. So Fight wasn't around to be written on this.

Second, Fight is explicitly defined in the rules as between two creatures only. I suspect at least one, if not both, of the playerbase and the underlying MtG mechanics would deal badly with the issues of multi-target fight. (E.g., since this isn't combat, how is damage assigned across multiple creatures and who decides it?)

(Research later: Tabak says the underlying mechanics could handle it, if they wrote the rules for it, but they've chosen not to do so because it leads to unclear outcomes).

It's also worth remembering that even the Polukranos/Master version has weird issues, which people tend to gloss over because the flavour makes it work, but are actually confusing if you really think about it without a decent grasp of the rules. They led to quite a few questions for casual players, and I think multi-target Fight would do the same thing.

Unlike Fight, it's not technically simultaneous damage. While state-based actions aren't checked in the middle of a spell resolving, and therefore your Wolves get hit back even if they kill something first, stuff that isn't state-based still goes off. If you've given your Wolves Wither, for example, those -1/-1 counters go on the enemy creature first and reduce its power accordingly for the crackback. That doesn't happen with Fight which is truly simultaneous, but when you create multi-target Fight, you will make people who aren't fully au fait with the fine print start asking if any particular one is dealt damage or dies before any other, and stuff like that.

I can see it possibly happening in future, but they haven't done it yet for good reasons.

[Saiga]

Oh, sorry, I knew Master predated fight but I was looking at the Oracle text, which made me also look up Polukranos. I did miss how the abilities aren't simultaneous like Fight is. I'm still confused at how the outcome would be unclear, wouldn't it work just like a creature being multi-blocked? The controller decides how their creatures spread damage, etc.

I guess if you had fights that could involve multiple creatures on either side that would be a nightmare.

edit: Or is the idea that Master and Polukranos are just as messy as "multi-fight" would be, and they don't want a keyword ability being that messy? Since those two are both Mythics and they haven't used that effect often.

[Seika]

I'm still confused at how the outcome would be unclear, wouldn't it work just like a creature being multi-blocked? The controller decides how their creatures spread damage, etc.

Well, there are literally no rules for it now. It's not a possible situation in Magic. One presumes this would be how they handle it, if they wrote those rules, but we don't know. It's possible they'd have to write it differently to account for some weird timing thing already in the rules, and our presumption would be wrong.

This may sound a little off, but I think you'll understand me if I say that the fact you think you know what would happen, despite it being a totally undefined case in Magic, is perhaps why they've left it undefined and unused.

edit: Or is the idea that Master and Polukranos are just as messy as "multi-fight" would be, and they don't want a keyword ability being that messy? Since those two are both Mythics and they haven't used that effect often.

I think they're actually a little cleaner, than multi-fight would be, in that the PUNCH + PUNCH text gives a clear indication of what's happening, whereas "Polukranos fights X creatures" not only brings up questions of timing and sequentiality and so forth which we've already mentioned, but also is ambiguous on things like "Does it deal its power to each of them, or does it deal its power to them as a group and have to divide the damage?" Broadly, however, it's true that Polukranos is, quote, a hot mess, unquote, in its attempt to create a quasi multi-fight situation.

[Saiga]

Oh, yes, now I see how unclear fight would be in that case. The rules for fighting would need to be detailed more like attacking/blocking are, which is not really how keywords work.

[aldeayeah]

Hyuu, I think I was the only one that played all their games, shame you beat me last round and made declaring me the winner awkward

I'm OK with declaring you the winner.

(Technically Seika had the best chance to beat your 4-1 (9-4 in games) record, her own being at 2-1 (5-2). At 2-1 (4-3) I'd have needed a clean sweep.)

If someone wants to play some matches over Cockatrice (non tournament) just drop a line here.

[Seika]

"Elder Dinosaur"

Meh. I was kinda okay with the new Tarkir Elders, but doesn't work here for me. It feels like a type that should be reserved for Mythics, with accompanying lore significance, power, and mechanical complexity. "A big dude with Trample and a cost-reduction clause" doesn't do it at all. I really don't wanna see this dumped down on some random Rare fatty every tribal set.

[aldeayeah]

Seth Manfield all but earns a well deserved spot in the Pro Tour Hall of Fame by winning PT Ixalan.

Some sweet new Standard decks, too! I like white vampire weenie and UB God Gift the best.

[I3uster]

wait theyre printing another un-set

what the fuck

[aldeayeah]

But this time they're not printing a shit-ton of it so it will be fine! Maybe.

[aldeayeah]

Played a bit of the Arena closed beta last night.

[I3uster]

>crow storm

ok you made me laugh

[aldeayeah]

At some point before Amonkhet rotates, I want to build this deck:

20 Flying Men
4 Favorable Winds
4 Dusk // Dawn
8 stuff
24 lands

get on to printing more flying men already Wizards

[Seika]

"Okay, screw your Siege Rhino. I may be at 2, but this 5/6 Tarmo I just drew stabilises me. Go."

"Know what I just drew? SIEGE RHINO, BOY."

"STOP PLAYING SIEGE RHINO IN LEGACY, YOU BITCH."

We each had very stupid T2s as well: I went Therapy (hitting by naming 'goyf) into flashbacking Therapy on Explorer, into playing another Explorer and then repeating Therapy and flashback, into Witness'ing back the GSZ that he'd Thoughtseized T1. So I stripped four targeted cards from his hand using two, got four lands out plus my drop, and put down board presence while regrowing a key card.

He then ripped Hymn and took my GSZ away again.

[aldeayeah]

Ah, the simple joys of life, such as playing Nic Fit.

Was this online or irl?

[Seika]

You think we have the cards to play Legacy IRL? Nooooooooooooooooo.

[Seika]

Team Unified Standard: with the exception of basic lands, no two decks a team brings to the table can feature the same card.

Hang on, how long's it been this way? Unified Constructed always used to be "four copies only between the three decks", not restricting the card totally once it was in one deck.

[aldeayeah]

It's been like this since I'm aware of the format (last couple years?)

- - - Updated - - -

Mtg salchicha wiki to the rescue

"Previously, the rule was that with the exception of basic lands, a team could only play a total of 4 of any given card, but this was changed prior to the 2016 World Magic Cup."

The current system is much more interesting IMO, especially when the top decks are multicolor.

[aldeayeah]

Silver bordered cards will be legal in multiplayer Commander until the next banned announcement.

my sides

[aldeayeah]

Whir Lantern is steadily becoming the most popular variant. What a time to be alive.

[aldeayeah]

Magic Arena Ixalan Best-of-1 Set Constructed: In which I learn to stop trying to get cute, and just smash face with huge RG dino midrange.