Which type moon characters have citizenship? Beast's lair debates

[Five_X]

So Zouken might actually be in the Kuzuki zone?

A lot of this depends on whether or not he was baptised at birth. That would have made him legally a subject of the Tsar, which by the 1924 constitution of the Soviet Union would make him--so long as he didn't accept foreign citizenship after leaving Russia--a Soviet citizen. Unfortunately for him, he probably(?) didn't register for Russian citizenship before the deadline expired at the end of the year 2000. So he is officially stateless, as Soviet citizenship is no longer recognised.

Through a legal quirk, this makes things slightly more interesting for Kariya and Shinji. Both are--by way of Zouken--lineal descendants of a living Soviet citizen. Depending on a few factors, like their proficiency in the Russian language, they could register as citizens of the Russian Federation without a time-limit. Shinji might have an easier pathway to Russian citizenship, because he would've been a minor at the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the RSFSR. Since of course all characters in Fate/stay night are legally 18 or older, Shinji would have the legal right to seek Russian citizenship, even if his parents/relatives lost that citizenship.

[tsugumi]

This is a wonderful post.

[Dark Squirrel]

so long as he didn't accept foreign citizenship after leaving Russia

Your assumption that Zouken didn't register as a Japanese citizen at one point or another is interesting.

[Five_X]

Your assumption that Zouken didn't register as a Japanese citizen at one point or another is interesting.

With Japanese citizenship it's less about whether he did, but whether he historically could. Our man is not of the Yamato race, alas.

[tsugumi]

Wait

Would magi have gotten baptised during that time period?

[Dark Squirrel]

With Japanese citizenship it's less about whether he did, but whether he historically could. Our man is not of the Yamato race, alas.

I thought sometime during the 20th century, if not the 19th century, nothing older than that. But that does go back to the tax services looking into this old dude with a very fancy western-type mansion.

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Wait

Would magi gotten baptised during that time period?

The Tohsaka would have. The Makiri, on the other hand...

[Five_X]

The Russian Orthodox Church did love its mysticism...

[Dark Squirrel]

The Russian Orthodox Church did love its mysticism...

That would almost make one regret the absence of Rasputin in any Nasuverse content.

[Five_X]

That would almost make one regret the absence of Rasputin in any Nasuverse content.

Rasputin is spooky but not so remarkable as a mystic--just a very good charlatan. His religious ideas were not very developed at all. Something like A Living Relic from Turgenev might be more interesting in the context of the Nasuverse.

[Dark Squirrel]

Rasputin is spooky but not so remarkable as a mystic--just a very good charlatan. His religious ideas were not very developed at all. Something like A Living Relic from Turgenev might be more interesting in the context of the Nasuverse.

I fully meant as a well-known Russian character from a time period in which the Orthodox Church still had a notable influence in the country.

Otherwise we'd have to wish for Ivan to be well-written. And we can't have that.

[You]

Wait

Would magi have gotten baptised during that time period?

If the magus wanted access to the attributes and conceptual weight of "God" to use as a factor in their rituals without going through a proxy like an angel there needed to be some level of faith.

"That being said, the changes of a Concept do have an effect on Magecraft," my master murmured.

In the cup now left on the table, ripples were forming on the surface of the tea. It seemed like the ritual my master had performed was having an effect on it, even if a little late.

"Further, it may have simply all just been a part of someone's plan. Rituals that use the name of the Lord to bind demons were in abundant supply in the past. Of course, being Magi, it's not like everyone is a pious follower of Christianity. We simply made use of the universalized concept of the Name of the Lord, under which all things must submit. In recent times, its similar to how an Internet Protocol works - well, I guess that explanation would just confuse you even more. With that line of reasoning, the use of Angels was an inevitable point on the road. Compared to using the Name of the Lord, it's a much easier Concept to make use of after all."

That I understood.

The Concept of God was one that had a distinct "colour" to it. You could also call it faith. In comparison to that, Angels came in many variations, like Guardian Angels and Fallen Angels. For this reason, the kinds of rituals that could be used exploiting Angels was far greater.

And that was why my master had called it a reinvention.

"Now, the development of new Magecraft in the West is almost entirely dominated by the influence of these Angels. No, it's not actually limited to new Magecraft. It may be subtle, but the Concept of Angels almost certainly has an effect on all Magecraft. For the modern Magus, whether the goal is to make use of Angels or eliminate them, in some form they are conscious of any changes that occur in regards to them."

My master closed his eyes. Then slowly, as if sighing,

"In a way, it's safe to say that the modern Magus is in the business of collecting Angels."

[pinetree]

What about surviving Servants.
You would think that the answer is no, Kotomine didn't get Gilgamesh a MyNumber Card, HOWEVER Gil did become a business owner in Hollow Ataraxia with Waku Waku Splash. Now, dream space complicates things but... it followed reality very closely, there's no reason to assume Gilgamesh didn't have documents in the real world too.

[tsugumi]

If the magus wanted access to the attributes and conceptual weight of "God" to use as a factor in their rituals without going through a proxy like an angel there needed to be some level of faith.

I see. Thanks for that.

[Reign]

I doubt Kirei would have done it for him but Gil probably had some way to forge documents in GoB. Or something to hypnotize people into thinking he had documents.

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Soujuurou's stuff is probably all fake like Kuzuki's but it was convincing enough to get him into a school and all his jobs.

[Spheromancer]

What about surviving Servants.
You would think that the answer is no, Kotomine didn't get Gilgamesh a MyNumber Card, HOWEVER Gil did become a business owner in Hollow Ataraxia with Waku Waku Splash. Now, dream space complicates things but... it followed reality very closely, there's no reason to assume Gilgamesh didn't have documents in the real world too.

The dreamscape is described as something that could perfectly happen in reality if everyone where present, so I think that he has some documents for that. Though whether they were fudged or not is another question.

[Ratman]

Unfortunately for him, he probably(?) didn't register for Russian citizenship before the deadline expired at the end of the year 2000. So he is officially stateless, as Soviet citizenship is no longer recognised.

This is the actual reason he insisted on having the next HGW so early in 1999, make it or break it, take all or lose all. Better to die than to haul ass back to Moscow.

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Wait... no. That's 2004. He is still a citizen during Kara no Kyoukai.

[Mattias]

What about surviving Servants.
You would think that the answer is no, Kotomine didn't get Gilgamesh a MyNumber Card, HOWEVER Gil did become a business owner in Hollow Ataraxia with Waku Waku Splash. Now, dream space complicates things but... it followed reality very closely, there's no reason to assume Gilgamesh didn't have documents in the real world too.

Gil also the has the ultimate "what papers" ability, unlimited wealth.

I wonder if Guda falls under the same category as Zouken though since all the nation of Earth no longer exist?

[Dullahan]

after so many years of consuming the flesh of the Japanese in order to sustain himself, I think zouken counts as naturalised

[Mattias]

That implies that I'm legally ham.

[Takashi]

Mages would likely be ghosts and have a separate identity in each nation in case they needed to use services.
Just as how saber had a fake passport.
For freelancers. Those that have lands such zouken and others , they would have to be citizens.