Fate/EXTRA CCC - No Spoiler Zone

[Mike1984]

Hmm, I dunno, world peace does sound appealing though....

But that "peace" comes from him (or, rather, his family) murdering anyone who disagrees from them. Peace isn't much fun when you're dead....

It's definetly better than Rin's alternative, but at the end of the day both are retarded.

Not really.

At least Rin's world has the potential to develop into something better. Leo's will forever be stuck as an oppressive fascist dictatorship, until someone like Rin comes along and overthrows it, at which point it becomes like Rin's world anyway.

You know, this is why I always stress that Rin and Extra!Rin are different people.

I don't think that Rin would be a cold-blooded social darwinist. Because holy shit Extra!Rin is fucking crazy.

Nah, she's exactly like normal Rin, from what I can tell. Acts like an uncaring bitch on the outside, but is actually rather nice when you get to know her. OK, so her "ideal" is pretty fucked-up, but so is normal Rin's. It's just that Extra Rin doesn't get the same opportunity to overcome it that normal Rin does, because of the situation they're in. Although, IIRC, she doesn't try to convince the MC to grant her wish if he wins, so she must mellow out at least a little.

[SeiKeo]

...which Rand we talkin' 'bout here?

The Ayn kind.

[mAc Chaos]

Ayn Rand.

Anyway, I'd take my chances with Rin's world. At least then I would be able to try and make my own way. If I fail, then at least I tried my best.

[I3uster]

Not really.

At least Rin's world has the potential to develop into something better. Leo's will forever be stuck as an oppressive fascist dictatorship, until someone like Rin comes along and overthrows it, at which point it becomes like Rin's world anyway.

I rather live in a peaceful oppressive facist dictatorship than die.

I know, I'm a filthy pragmatist and shit, but can't help it.

[mAc Chaos]

I rather live in a peaceful oppressive facist dictatorship than die.

I know, I'm a filthy pragmatist and shit, but can't help it.

It's not peaceful.

It's violent. It's no different than Rin's world, except someone became the top dog and is dominating everyone else.

Saying that's peaceful is like saying when a mugger puts a gun to your head and demands your wallet, that he didn't steal it because you gave it to him yourself.

[SeiKeo]

I rather live in a peaceful oppressive facist dictatorship than die.

I know, I'm a filthy pragmatist and shit, but can't help it.

Order before freedom, how very... Germanic.

[I3uster]

That's the whole basis of his belief. Peace through stagnation. The only people making it non-peaceful are terrorists thinking we should tear eachother up because what's left is humanities best or some shit.

[mAc Chaos]

> peaceful
> everyone kept in line because they'd be murdered otherwise

[Mcjon01]

Rin's plan in Extra is basically identical to Gilgamesh's plan in UBW. I guess this topic proves the only reason people feel that Gilgamesh is evil is because he isn't cute enough.

[mAc Chaos]

Rin's plan in Extra is basically identical to Gilgamesh's plan in UBW. I guess this topic proves the only reason people feel that Gilgamesh is evil is because he isn't cute enough.

Not really. Just letting people live their own lives and having them be responsible for it is different than unleashing worldwide cataclysm on innocent people.

[I3uster]

> peaceful
> everyone kept in line because they'd be murdered otherwise

Well, better than "everyone getting murdered just because".

Both alternatives are retarded. But one of them lets me survive.

[mAc Chaos]

Well, better than "everyone getting murdered just because".

Both alternatives are retarded. But one of them lets me survive.

You could just as easily suck up to someone in Rin's world and get their protection by being their lapdog. Because that's basically what it is.

Leo's world is basically just Rin's world after someone became the worst offender of them all and outkilled everyone. So it's not even different as far as violence goes. At least when everyone is fending for themselves you can do what you want.

[TypeWannabe]

A world where Darwinism rules (Rin's philosophy) isn't much better than a world where stagnation rules (Leo's philosophy).

[Mcjon01]

Not really. Just letting people live their own lives and having them be responsible for it is different than unleashing worldwide cataclysm on innocent people.

Thats not what she wants at all. She wants a world where humanity is constantly at war, so that the weak will die off and the strong will grow stronger by struggling to survive.

[Char]

In Rin's world, everyone is "free" in the sense that no one is leading them, but there will still be world wide war etc, so the only difference is now instead of the Haraways killing people it's now everyone killing each other. At least in Leo's world we know that he would treat all the people under his banner as equals.

[I3uster]

You could just as easily suck up to someone in Rin's world and get their protection by being their lapdog. Because that's basically what it is.

But in a world without rules they could treat me like shit and get away with it. Or blow my head off without anyone caring. It's still less secure. Because that's pretty much what it is, freedom vs security in the most retarded forms each side has to offer, that is anarchy vs fascism.

[mAc Chaos]

Did she specifically mention that she wants war? I didn't get to that part yet then.

I just thought you guys meant Leo's world VS things as they are normally. But isn't a world with never ending war, basically the normal one? There's always people fighting. At least it has beneficial side effects. A lot of our current standard of living comes from the competition we had between other nations.

[I3uster]

A lot of our current standard of living comes from the competition we had between other nations.

I always hated this argument, because it just means a nation doesn't give a shit about research until they have to exterminate another. It's not a good point to make in favor of war, it's a sad point about humanity.

[Mcjon01]

Seriously, Rin's problem with the Harways isn't even that people don't have freedom, it's that they're keeping things peaceful, which leads to stagnation. She probably wouldn't give two shits if the world was a dictatorship as long as it had a thriving war economy, she's all kinds of fucked up.

[Char]

But that "peace" comes from him (or, rather, his family) murdering anyone who disagrees from them. Peace isn't much fun when you're dead....

Ahh but why would you disagree with him? His world view is not that bad for the people under him, everyone will be treated equally and fairly.

Seriously, Rin's problem with the Harways isn't even that people don't have freedom, it's that they're keeping things peaceful, which leads to stagnation. She probably wouldn't give two shits if the world was a dictatorship as long as it had a thriving war economy, she's all kinds of fucked up.

I know, how exactly does peace lead to stagnation?, I know a lot of technology was developed at wartime, but still the benefits of peace and equality outweigh the cons.