Because he is a deification of primordial Earth. Its concept might be alien to the new era but not the rock known as the Earth. Also, Archetype's Regression Composition was stated to be "deified natural phenomena", the deified (擬神化) Kanji was the same as the one used in Ea's description, and she is certainly not making a god every time she generates natural phenomena.
Earth =/= Gaia is where I'm going with this. Rules for Gaian deities does not automatically equal the rules for primordial Eath deities.
Kinda interesting. Points for consideration:Originally Posted by Vagrant
1) The Zero sheets are kind of a cluster in the first place, and Lancelot's is one of the problematic ones. It has no gold bars indicating ME boosts, as a rather irritating start.
2) The Zero sheets do reflect the 'current' status of their Servants - see Excalibur being reduced because of Artoria's wound - just as the F/SN sheets would change stats under new Masters etc. Since this is the case, you'd expect that Lancelot's sheet would include Arondight because that's the only time his stats are actually revealed, so to speak.
3) On the same principle, ME should be included as well, so the gold bar problem becomes more pronounced. In the one case, the Zero sheets are being inconsistent both with their own propensity to show current status and with the franchise as a whole (which includes ME in Berserker stats as a matter of course). In the other case, they are being consistent, but managed to screw up or not include the colouring for one reason or another.
On to the possibilities:
Scenario A: Lancelot + Arondight without ME boosts. This doesn't really tally with what's seen when he has it out, because he would then be some distance beyond Herakles' stats when he draws his sword (you can argue for a smaller gap depending on how strict you think the ranking system is, but it would surely be there) and that's not shown to be the case when this happens in the story itself. This also conflicts with the current status principle.
Scenario B: Lancelot + ME without Arondight. Having reversed the assumptions, we come out with the same result: he should still be displaying much better stats when he does have Arondight out. While this also runs into current status, I suppose an argument could be made that we're being shown the sheet as of F/Z 3 (when we got all the other sheets fully revealed and Lancelot's was still under For Someone Else's Glory concealment), but made clear so that Gen could actually show it off.
Scenario C: Lancelot without either Arondight or ME. This has the same problems as the above two scenarios, but magnified.
Scenario D: Lancelot with both Arondight and ME. This is the only one which totally avoids the current status problem and weird inconsistency problems (albeit by relying on the missing gold bars being some kind of error). However, this gives him pretty terrible base stats, unfitting for a Knight of the Round Table - and particularly one of the most famous and accomplished. Admittedly, that's in the Berserker container which is rubbish in the first place and may not be his best fit either. Nevertheless, that feels unlikely to me, and especially given the way Gen generally treated Lancelot.
In short, I give you no other answer than that the Zero sheets don't make sense. If I were forced to choose, I'd say that the most sensible option was Scenario D, and the most likely option was Scenario B, with Gen forgetting how utterly absurd that would make his stats and therefore not writing the scene to them.
Last edited by Seika; August 16th, 2013 at 06:31 AM.
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Last edited by Vagrant; August 16th, 2013 at 06:34 AM.
So you and I have exactly the same opinion. I think it SHOULD be ME + Arondight but I'm fairly certain it's just ME without Arondight despite all that. I was hoping there'd be something conclusive but I dont think there's any one good answer. I believe stats should be shown sans all boosts but I'm sure they're shown with ME.
Well, it's all pretty messy. If anything his stat sheet seems roughly right with how he was beating up Saber in their final clash. So that would suggest ME and Arondight is included.
But for him to be grabbing NPs out of the air with only B+ Agility, it seems hard to swallow considering Diarmuid's reaction to the feat. When combined with the masturbation of Lancelot and Kariya by Nasu and Gen; Lancelot running around with mainly Cs(if he doesn't have Arondight/ME on) seems a tad strange.
Urobuchi really didn't put much effort into this.
My own conclusion was that Herk's stats are mainly beyond A anyway. Herk would have A+strength, A endurance and maybe A agility without ME. So Lancelot with Arondight=Berserker Herk. But that's me.
Last edited by BlackField; August 16th, 2013 at 07:16 AM.
While I have argued that the chart doesn't include ME and Arondight a lot (specifically against Mellon and food several times) I actually always believed that it simply only included ME. This is largely highlighted by the fact that even if he draws Arondight with A Rank stats his stat would still stay A (and not A+ or A++) at least, this is how food (and technically me too as I was only arguing for the sake of arguing lol) interpreted it during his argument (as A is 50 points, and B is 40, meaning going up in a Rank is 10 points. So a Rank above A is 60 whatever that is).
So yeah, even though those stats are A is that A a 50 or a 90?
And yeah, Lancelot is kinda meant to be the best martial artist in the Age of Heroes/Legends (Which is the Age they were in according to the Kishiou scene). Which probably includes that time period Lu Bu and all those Romance of the Three Kingdoms shit was going on.
Last edited by Cruor; August 16th, 2013 at 07:26 AM.
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I would also like to suggest possibility that Herakles stats may be given without Mad Enhancement bonus.
Arguments pro:
We see his stats after first fight, where Mad Enhancement wasn't in effect (pre-Realta Nua), or was somehow restrained (in Realta Nua). And in both cases it was made clear that when Ilya unleashed his full strength he became much stroner.
After first fight, Saber measured his stats as "at least A-rank" and was clearly surprised to know that Herakles wasn't under effects of ME/was restrained. Saber doesn't have Master vision, but she is clearly capable of measuring strength of her opponents.
Arguments contro.
His status is not updated after fight in the forest. When again, the whole update thing is inconsistent. For example, Archer reduced to 1/10th of his original strength still has the same stats. Similiarly Saber NP still ranked as C, no matter how many times she uses Excalibur.
Golden bars. Frankly speaking, we don't really know what they mean. Yes, based on intuition it is pozsible to assume what they mean buff in rank, but that is still a conjecture to a degree. And it seems like they are not present at all in all future instances from Zero to Apocrypha and CCC.
All gods are natural phenomena or celestial bodies as stated in CCC. Ea isn't any different either. If the rules for Ea's deification were any different, he would still be there, but he became obsolete just like the other gods.
Or he was an alien god and flew back home.
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That is a joke.
How does a DA regeneration works?
Depends on the DA.
Most of them have a curse of time regression so they return to how they were after taking damage.
About that, what's different between standard DA time curse and Strout's? Is there anything about it?
Can someone link to the CCC info about Ea? Tried using search function but Ea is too short for it to work.
Its uncertain, Strout's could just be an uber version that prevents his body from changing rather then restoring it to how it was.
But its all speculation.
Page 1 of the CCC translation thread for runes, page 14 for Master of Chaos' translation, search "Enuma Elish" in that thread for Food's summary.Can someone link to the CCC info about Ea? Tried using search function but Ea is too short for it to work.
Thanks man.
Magic."Let's see, vampires have the ability to recover from most injuries they receive.
With ordinary outside force...... I mean normal weapons. With such things, you cannot cause wounds greater than the speed of their recovery.
To kill a vampire, you need an outside force greater than their speed of recovery, or something that nullifies their ability to recover.
This ability of theirs, the curse of restoration---actually isn't treating the wounds. Instead, it is a reversing of time to restore the damaged body part back to its original state. An occult artifact which nullifies this effect is called a conceptual weapon."
This?Can someone link to the CCC info about Ea? Tried using search function but Ea is too short for it to work.
So that's where it was. I couldn't find deaddrunk's translation. Because I was looking in the wrong thread.
The gold bar in each Herk's stats is the ME bonus.
Which is kinda funny as Ea has an entire row of golden bars and I joked about how that was the second row that you get for people that go over the limit food actually went yeah probably.
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Supposed to be more like Ciel's time curse.
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